Author Topic: Help with - Saint Thomas Dudley Marriage John Haines and Harriet Winslow 1850  (Read 872 times)

Offline Chev

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Hello all,

This is my very first post and I am hoping a nice someone out there may be able to help me with obtaining some further information about a marriage between John Haines and Harriet Winslow on 26/08/1850 at Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester, England. I am attempting to prove (or otherwise) that John Haines is my Gx3 Grandfather's brother by hopefully obtaining a father's name and possibly an abode or occupation from the marriage records.

I am based in Australia and sincerely appreciate any help at all.

Fingers crossed!!!

Offline trish1120

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Re: Help with - Saint Thomas Dudley Marriage John Haines and Harriet Winslow 1850
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 27 March 18 09:55 BST (UK) »
Greetings from Sydney :)
And welcome to Rootschat.

The Marriage is on FreeREG.
Fathers WILLIAM Haines a Farmer and William Winslow a Miner.
John was age 30 and a Wheelwright, abode King St.
Harriett was age 20
Bachelor/Spinster
By Banns-Groom signed. Bride & witnesses marked X

www.freereg.org.uk

Trish :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline Chev

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Re: Help with - Saint Thomas Dudley Marriage John Haines and Harriet Winslow 1850
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 27 March 18 10:08 BST (UK) »
Greetings from Brisbane   :)

Thank you very much Trish - greatly appreciate it and unfortunately I'm off now down another rabbit hole.

Thanks for the tip about where to find the info - will be very handy.

Many thanks!!!

Offline trish1120

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Re: Help with - Saint Thomas Dudley Marriage John Haines and Harriet Winslow 1850
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 27 March 18 10:17 BST (UK) »
Your welcome.

Is there more I or someone else can help you with?
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)


Offline Chev

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Re: Help with - Saint Thomas Dudley Marriage John Haines and Harriet Winslow 1850
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 27 March 18 10:44 BST (UK) »

I'm not really sure ... I was hoping his (John Haine's) father's name was going to be a Benjamin Haynes who I think originally married an Ann Weston and then later a Charlotte Bridgens (after Ann passed). Between Benjamin and Charlotte there was a mix of children on the 1841 and 1851 censuses (ie half siblings, step siblings and full siblings) and they switched between using the different surnames. Thomas (my Gx3 grandfather is not on the censuses) but his marriage certificate shows his step sister Maria Bridgens as one of his witnesses so I can tie him into the above mess (although I can't find him on an 1841 census). I then was trying to find John Haines, also not on the census (who I thought may have been his brother) as his baptism records list his parents as Benjamin and Ann Haines same parish church as Thomas' baptism records. One bump I've stumbled on is that both John and Thomas are listed with birth dates of 1820 (a month apart ....). So now I know the John Haines who married Harriet Winslow is probably not the one I'm after (based on dad's names not marrying up), I'm still left with the question ... are John and Thomas really brothers, if so where were they in 1841 and perhaps the dates are wrong ......

It's so nice when it all comes together and it's so .... "challenging" when it doesn't ... maybe John died, maybe there was another Benjamin and Ann floating around at the same time ....

One to ponder :)



Offline trish1120

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Re: Help with - Saint Thomas Dudley Marriage John Haines and Harriet Winslow 1850
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 27 March 18 16:01 BST (UK) »
I've located the 1841/1851 census for the Family so will look at it all tomorrow night.
Off to bed now :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline rosie99

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Re: Help with - Saint Thomas Dudley Marriage John Haines and Harriet Winslow 1850
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 27 March 18 17:03 BST (UK) »
Welcome to rootschat  :)

1851 (Aston) information for those trying to help
HO107 / 2060 f331 p15

Benjamin   Haynes   55   occ Labourer   bn Birmingham   
Charlotte   48 bn Ireland   
Isaac   13   bn Aston
Reuben   10   bn Aston
Charlotte    8     bn Aston
Maria   Bridgens   Daughter In Law 21   bn Aston

First marriage
Benjamin Haynes
Ann Weston
23 August 1818   Aston Juxta Birmingham
(Saints Peter And Paul Aston)
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Chev

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Re: Help with - Saint Thomas Dudley Marriage John Haines and Harriet Winslow 1850
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 28 March 18 05:03 BST (UK) »
Hi Trish and Rosie (and anyone else who may be looking :)),

Thank you both for your posts. I'm fascinated by this website - such a wealth of knowledge out there!!! I didn't think to include as much information as possible to make it easier for people to help me, so I've added some some notes below (posted over two pages/posts) as I'd love to find Thomas (Gx3 Grandfather) and John Haines (possibly his brother....) in 1841 and find out what happened to John. I have been able to trace Thomas Haines from his wedding in 1847 to Elizabeth Wakerley and then through the censuses of 1851 and 1861 until his possible death in 1873 (APR-JUN QTR in Birmingham, Warwickshire).

1. Benjamin Haines/Haynes (bachelor) married Ann Weston (spinster) on 23/08/1818 at Saint Peter and Saint Paul Chursh (Church of England) Aston Juxta Birmingham, Warwickshire, England, by banns. Both Benjamin Haynes and Ann Weston didn't sign their own names but just made a mark "X" so were probably illiterate. Their witnesses (names hard to read) possibliy named Joshua Wright and Margarett Carter/s didn't sign their own names but just made a mark "X" so were probably illiterate.

2. Benjamin Haines and Ann (may have?) had the following children
2.1 William Haines (missing as well)
There was a William Haines born 07/04/1818 and christened / baptised at Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England on 29/10/1827. Father: Benjamin Haines Mother: Ann. Abode: Fazely / Fazeley (?) Street. Father's occupation: Coach Spring Maker. Note: This is the same abode that is listed on his sister's burial records in 1829 Jane Haynes. Saint Martin Church = Church of England. Was he born before his parents were married? His parents marriage records show that they were married on 23/08/1818, he would have been 4 months old. He was not baptised until he was 9 years old so perhaps his true date of birth wasn't recorded previously ? Can't find any information on him after the 1841 Census. In the 1841 Census his occupation was listed as "Whip xxx?" can't decipher it.

2.2 Thomas Haines / Haynes (my GX3 grandfather)
A Thomas Haines was born on 14/08/1820 and baptised on 27/05/1825 at Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England. Father Benjamin Haines, Mother Ann. Canal Street (?) and Father's Occupation Coach Spring Fitter / Filer (?) ... hard to read...
It would appear that his sister was baptised on the same day and she is on the same record. A Mary Ann Haines was born on 22/01/1824  and baptised on 27/05/1825 at Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England. Father Benjamin Haines, Mother Ann. Canal Street (?) and Father's Occupation Coach Spring Fitter / Filer (?) ... hard to read...
Thomas married Elizabeth Wakerley and they went on to have 7 children - can trace all the way through to me (happy).

2.3 John Haines (the missing guy)
There was a John Haines born 27/09/1820 and christened / baptised at Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England on 14/05/1821. Father: Benjamin Haines Mother: Ann. Abode: Morland Street. Father's Occupation: Gun Finisher (Problem - John is listed as being born 17/09/1820 and Thomas is listed as being born 14/08/1820, it could be possible the dates are incorrect or it could be possible that they are NOT related?). No further information - what happened to him? Could John and Thomas be lodging in 1841 at Moor Street, Aston, Birmingham with a couple called John and Sarah Bailey (are they a boarding house?)

2.4 Mary Ann Haines (missing from 1841 census, don't know where she is in 1841?)
A Mary Ann Haines was born on 22/01/1824 and baptised on 27/05/1825 at Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England. Father Benjamin Haines, Mother Ann. Canal Street (?) and Father's Occupation Coach Spring Fitter / Filer (?) ... hard to read.. Mary Ann married William Lakin Summers and had 8 children. I can trace her through 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891 censuses.
Could Mary Ann be lodging in 1841 at High Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire with a Mary Syson and lots of other females. Note - her dad and step mother Charlotte are residing at xx High Street, Deritend, Aston, Warwickshire in 1841 - is this the same street (maybe the three children from the first marriage except William were moved out? wouldn't you love to go back in time and be able to ask them...)

2.5 Jane Haines
A Jane Haynes was buried on 05/04/1829 in Birmingham, Warwick, England on 30/03/1829 aged 9 weeks of abode Fazeley Street. Father: Benjamin Haynes Mother: Ann. It appears her mother (Ann Haynes nee Weston) was buried on 29/03/1829 a week before. (Note: Fazeley Street is the same abode as per her brother's baptism 2 years earlier in 1827 - William Haines). I'm assuming both baby Jane (9 weeks) and Ann Haynes (nee Weston) died maybe due to complications in child birth or the same illness??? It's sad when you see little ones who didn't make it.

(continued on next post)

Offline Chev

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Re: Help with - Saint Thomas Dudley Marriage John Haines and Harriet Winslow 1850
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 28 March 18 05:04 BST (UK) »



Continued from earlier post

3. Benjamin Haines/Haynes re-married to Charlotte Bridgens (nee unknown - but her 1st husband was Samuel Bridgens I think as he is listed as the father on records of both Joseph and Maria Bridgens). Benjamin Haynes (widower) married Charlotte Bridgens (widow) on 26/01/1835 at Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick, England, by banns. Both Benjamin Haynes and Charlotte Bridgens didn't sign their own names but just made a mark "X" so were probably illiterate. Their witnesses (names hard to read) possibly named Hannah Eaton / Easton didn't sign just made a mark "X" and William Eaton / Easton signed his own name.

4. Charlotte Bridgen's children listed on 1841 Census (as Haines) and 1851 Census (as Bridgens) are:
4.1 Joseph Bridgens
There was a Joseph Bridgens born on 07/03/1825 and christened on 04/08/1825 at Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England. Father: Samuel Bridgens. Mother: Charlotte Bridgens.
1st wife: A Joseph Bridgens married an Sarah Betts on 25/08/1844 at St Phillip's Cathedral, Birmingham, Warwick, England. Father's name: Samuel Bridgens. Spouse's father: John Betts. I think they has a child Sarah Jane Bridgens born 1849, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England. Can't find any trace of her after 1851 Census, I think her mum also Sarah died died in 1853 (JAN-MAR QTR) and on 20/03/1853 aged 33 years, born approx 1820. Maybe little Sarah went to live with relatives whilst her dad re-married...
2nd wife: A Joseph Bridgens married an Elizabeth Jones (nee Plant) in 1854 (APR-JUN QTR) at Kings Norton, Worcestershire, England. They had two children Mary Ann Bridgens (1858 Aston) and Caroline Bridgens (1855 Aston) who I've been able to find an trace through.
4.2 Mary Maria Bridgens
There was a Mary Maria Bridgens born on 03/11/1829 and christened on 24/11/1829 at Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England. Father: Samuel Bridgens. Mother: Charlotte Bridgens.
She went on to marry a Cornelius Jefferies on 09/05/1853 at Saint Mark, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England. Father: Samuel Bridgens. Spouse's father: Thomas Jeffries. They had 3 children and I can trace them through. Charlotte Jeffries (1855), Clara Jeffries (1864), Julie Jeffries (1861)

5. Benjamin Haines/Haynes and Charlotte (nee Bridgens nee xxx) children.
So they both had children from previous marriages (as above) and they also went on to have Isaac Haynes born 1838 Aston, Reuben Haynes 1841 Aston and Charlotte Haynes 1843 Aston (i'm still researching these ones)

Lots of notes, lots of questions, lots of fun. Very addictive ... almost better than coffee! Many thanks to anyone who can assist, I'd really appreciate it  :) :) :)