Help with finding Thomas HAINES (1820), John HAINES (1820) William HAINES

[Chev]

The page is for the baptisms on the 27th of May of the year 1825, the first column shows that all the children were baptised on this date. The second column shows their birth date. So Thomas and Mary Ann are baptised on the same day with different birth dates (Thomas 14/08/1820 and Mary Ann 22/01/1824).

As for William - well his baptism record (attached) shows he is born on 07/04/1818 (before Thomas and Mary Ann) and baptised 29/10/1827 - 9 years after... (His is the first record on right hand page)

Hence why I am trying to figure out of they are related and where they were in 1841 and what happened to John HAINES and William HAINES/HAYNES after...

More questions than answers at this point.

[solidrock]

Hi chev, I suspect that it maybe Thomas's birth date is wrong and John's is ok. Do you have Thomas's marriage cert that may give a clue to his age. Other than that is this Thomas's death which would give his birth as 1823.

HAINES, THOMAS        62      
GRO Reference: 1885  S Quarter in WARWICK  Volume 06D  Page 291

[solidrock]

I can only find him in the 1861 census,(if it is him). Ladywood

HAYNES    Thomas    Head    M    M    39    Button Tool Maker    WAR    Birmingham
HAYNES    Elizabeth    Wife            M    F    33    Paper Box Maker    LEI            Loughborough

This would make him born 1822.

[Chev]

Hello there,

I've attached his marriage certificate for 1847 which upon closure inspection shows:

 - Thomas HAYNES "of full age"
 - Elizabeth WAKERLEY "minor

I'm not sure at what age one was considered a "minor" or "of full age in 1847"

The details on the marriage certificate helps support the following:

 - Benjamin HAYNES is his father (although Benjamin's occupation of "shoe maker" never appears on the cenuses I have found) 

 - Maria BRIDGENS was a witness and she is Thomas' step sister living with step father Benjamin HAYNES, step mother Charlotte HAYNES (nee BRIDGENS nee BENTON - Charlotte BENTON originally married Samuel BRIDGENS), full brother Joseph BRIDGENS and step brother William HAYNES and two half brothers Isaac HAYNES and Reuben HAYNES in 1841 at High Street, Deritend, Aston, Warwickshire. Note both Maria and Joseph are listed as "Hains" but they are Bridgens and this becomes clear in 1851 Censuses)

 - William Haynes was a witness as well and after this time he disappears - still looking for him. I've just received some information from another helpful person that his occupation in 1841 was a Whip Maker Journeyman so perhaps William HAINES travelled? I may need to search for censuses further afield. (so interesting and frustrating at the same time, and there never appears to be enough time, I try to sneak in a few hours when my "living household" is asleep or napping)

Here's the marriage certificate (I'll post information about Thomas HAINES in censuses next).

Once again thank you - the more eyes and different lines of questioning helps.

 

[Chev]

Hello Solidrock,

This is the census information I have on Thomas HAINES and Elizabeth WAKERLEY (married 1847)

1851 CENSUS

Thomas HAYMES/HAYNES/HAINES Aged 28 years (born approx 1823 Birmingham, Warwickshire), married, working as "Button Tool Maker", living at home with his wife and 2 children at 23 Holland Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England. Note he has been listed as "Thomas Haymes"
(wife: E Haymes / Elizabeth Haynes)
(2 children:
 - Emily H Haynes (listed as E Heynes) aged 3 born 1848 Loughborough,  Lincolnshire
 - Jane Ann Haynes (listed as J A Heynes) aged 1 born 1850 Birmingham, Warwickshire)

1861 CENSUS (I think this is the one you are referring to in your earlier post)

Thomas Haynes aged 39 years (born approx 1822 Birmingham, Warwickshire), married, working as "Button Tool Maker", living at home with his wife, 6 children and his brother-in-law at 5 Albion Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England.
(wife: Elizabeth Haynes (nee Wakerley) aged 33 born 1828 Loughborough, Leicestershire)
(6 children:
 - Emily H Haynes aged 13 born 1848 Loughborough,  Leicestershire, "Paper Box Maker"
 - Jane Ann Haynes aged 11 born 1850 Loughborough,  Leicestershire, "Paper Box Maker"
 - John Ben Haynes aged 9 born 1852 Birmingham "Jeweller"
 - Levine Elizabeth Haynes aged 7 born 1854 Birmingham "Scholar"
 - Thomas H P Haynes / Thomas Hy (Henry) Haynes aged 5 born 1856 Birmingham "Scholar",
 - Mary H Haynes aged 8 months born 1861 Birmingham)
(brother-in-law: Joseph Wakerley, aged 23 (born 1838, Loughborough,  Leicestershire), unmarried and working as "Fish Dealer")

1871 CENSUS

Thomas Haynes aged 48 years (born approx 1823 Warwickshire), married, working as "Button Tool Maker", living at home with his wife and 5 children at Icknield Port Road (cannot read house number), Birmingham, Warwickshire, England.
(wife: Elizabeth Haynes (nee Wakerley), aged 43 (born 1828 Leicestershire)
(5 children:
 - John Haynes aged 20 born 1851 Birmingham, Warwickshire, unmarried, "Hammer Driver"
 - Emma Haynes (Levine Elizabeth Haynes?) aged 18 born 1853 Birmingham, Warwickshire, unmarried, "Box Checker"
 - Harry Haynes (Thomas Hy (Henry) Haynes) aged 15 born 1856 Birmingham, Warwickshire, unmarried,  "Fitter"
 - Mary Haynes (Mary H H Haynes) aged 11 born 1860, Birmingham, Warwickshire, "School")
 - Alice Haynes aged 7 born 1864, Birmingham, Warwickshire, "School")


So this information shows that maybe his Thomas HAINES / HAYNES original date of birth of 1820 was incorrect or .... ? perhaps he knew his correct year and used that to report in the CENSUSES?
1841 - missing
1851 - shows 1823
1861 - shows 1822
1871 - shows 1823

I think he is dead by 1873 and I'll post some information on this next (at this point it's all just guess work - some educated and some not )

[Chev]

Hi again solidrock (and anyone else who may be able to help ),

This is the information I have on Thomas HAYNES possible date of death.


1881 CENSUS

This information shows Elizabeth HODGES (nee HAYNES, nee WAKERLEY) is aged 50 years (born approx 1831, Loughboro, Leicestershire, England), married, working as "Paper Box Maker", listed as "Head of Household", living at home (same street as 1871 CENSUS with THOMAS HAYNES now deceased) with her 2 children at Kenilworth Place, 1 Icknield Port Road, Birmingham, Warwickshire. She has been listed as "Elizabeth Hodges".

(children:
 - Mary Haynes, aged 22 years, born Birmingham, Warwickshire
 - Alice Haynes, aged 18 years, born Birmingham, Warwickshire)


1873 MARRIAGE

Thomas Hodges (single, born 1831 aged 42 years) married Elizabeth Haynes (nee Wakerley, widowed, born 1828 aged 45 years) on 15/12/1873 at All Saints, Birmingham, Warwick, England.
(Groom's Father: Edward Hodges)
(Bride's Father: John Wakerley)

This may mean that her husband Thomas Haynes died between 1871 and 1873 (as he is listed on the 1871 CENSUS). Thomas Haynes may have died in 1873 (APR-JUN QTR) in Birmingham, Warwickshire, England, unfortunately it does not give an age at death or a birth year.



So... if (?) all of this guesswork helps support that Thomas HAYNES / HAINES birth date of 14/08/1820 is incorrect and and possible brother John HAYNES / HAINES  birth date of 17/09/1820 is possibly correct then I still need to find John HAINES and William HAINES and what happened to them...? Any thoughts or ideas for me to pursue.


Once again - many many thanks.
Chev

[solidrock]

Maybe...

HAYNES, THOMAS        50      
GRO Reference: 1873  J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 7

[Chev]

Hey solidrock,

That could be him - Thomas HAINES' death record.

Where did you look to find that? Was the age of 50 listed?

Maybe a little breakthrough?

[Chev]

I think I found the source free bmd (I didn't realise the ages were listed - this is helpful).

If I ordered a death certificate - would it show me any further information?