Help needed dating a photograph of great-grandfather Robert Lay maybe

[deejayEn]

One last question if Jim or someone caqn help, here is a scan of the back of the second photo, the man in uniform. Does the typography or type arrangement help to date it? Can you tell me anything about the maker of the card.

And does anyone have any further thoughts on the uniform. My grandad was in the Territorials, is this a typical uniform?

[jim1]

The K Ltd. stampbox was in use from 1918-36 so not much help.
The uniform was in use up to about the same time.

[deejayEn]

I think my grandad joined the TA in 1931 so that would fit in with those dates.

I can't agree with the observations about the facial features being different. I looked at the tiny lines under the eyes (crows feet?) and I am sure they are the same in both photos. The tops of the eyebrows and the way they cure into the nose are the same. The shape of the eyes are surely the same.

The mouths do look slighlty different but surely that's because one is slightly open the other is closed. I can't really see any difference in the ears bearing in mind they are at different angles.

One problem is that the military photo was scanned flat wherreas the other was taken by a camera and so may have slightly elongated the features esp the chin.

[jim1]

The 1st. one was taken in the 1920's & the 2nd. 1930's so he would have been 5-10 years older.
The TA chap looks around 20 as does the other one.

[Ruskie]

A bit late for you, Ruskie, as you're usually among the first to answer.  This thread started in April 2018 

  Yes .... I noticed it was an old thread ... don't know how I missed it at the time. 

[Ruskie]

I think my grandad joined the TA in 1931 so that would fit in with those dates.

I can't agree with the observations about the facial features being different. I looked at the tiny lines under the eyes (crows feet?) and I am sure they are the same in both photos. The tops of the eyebrows and the way they cure into the nose are the same. The shape of the eyes are surely the same.

The mouths do look slighlty different but surely that's because one is slightly open the other is closed. I can't really see any difference in the ears bearing in mind they are at different angles.

One problem is that the military photo was scanned flat wherreas the other was taken by a camera and so may have slightly elongated the features esp the chin.

The hat is covering the majority of the army lad's eyebrows. 
I don't think the eyes are the same in both either .... sorry ... but, they are your relatives so you know them best. 

[nicdigby]

Looking good 

[SiGr]

A couple of thoughts:
1. The colourised photo imprint also seems to state, "& TOOTING". It might be worth researching dates for that branch to see when it opened/closed. No guarantee that will be conclusive but it might help.
2. On the photo of the soldier in uniform. The 'aiguillettes' (i.e. the twisted cords he is wearing) are strongly suggestive of those worn by drummers, possibly meaning he was a 'drummer boy'. If so, that would mean he was no older than 18 in the photo. It might be worth posting that photo in the 'Armed Forces' forum and asking for observations; it is remarkable the information people can produce from uniforms.
Good luck with your research.
Simon

[deejayEn]

Thanks all. I did check out the Tooting branch and found it was run by the photographer's brother from the mid 1920s.

I'm sure this must be my grandad because the Camden studio was literally round the corner from where lived. And his first job was in a piano factory almost behind the photographic studio. Although he does look a bit different to how he looks in other photos.

I have been sent another photo of him when he joined the TA in 1930 age 16 and seems to have a different uniform. I will post both in the milirtary section to find out more.