Author Topic: Tracing my grandfather - Arthur Lloyd Jones (Harry Jones or Harry or Eddie May)  (Read 2478 times)

Offline Black Adder

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Re: Tracing my grandfather - Arthur Lloyd Jones (Harry Jones or Harry or Eddie May)
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 28 April 18 22:24 BST (UK) »
Thank you Sylvia. Good idea.

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Tracing my grandfather - Arthur Lloyd Jones (Harry Jones or Harry or Eddie May)
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 28 April 18 22:35 BST (UK) »
known as was also used for inforamal adoptees

theres a proffession board with actors when you have got more information on this forum i suggest transfering post there..anyone researching actors may know them

i remember seeing abpout Pierrots in Wales

very interesting post and great photos
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Offline Black Adder

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Re: Tracing my grandfather - Arthur Lloyd Jones (Harry Jones or Harry or Eddie May)
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 28 April 18 22:37 BST (UK) »
Thank you, Brigidmac.


Offline Black Adder

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Re: Tracing my grandfather - Arthur Lloyd Jones (Harry Jones or Harry or Eddie May)
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 10 June 20 11:24 BST (UK) »
I posted this two years ago. I had some helpful comments but am still no further through the brick wall. I thought I would repeat the post to see if anyone else has any ideas all of which would be gratefully received.

I have tried in vain to find out what happened to my grandfather who died sometime before 1935.  Here is the story. Rather long but necessarily detailed. Apologies in advance.

I was born and raised in Hastings as were my parents.  I have been researching my family tree for some time but recently made some new and intriguing discoveries.

My mother was born Gwendoline Mabel JONES in 1912.  Her parents were Arthur Lloyd JONES and Isabella Mabel JONES (nee RAYMOND).  Arthur was born in Rhyl in North Wales in 1876 and Mabel was born in London in 1886.  I do know that both of them were on the stage.  Not only is this shown as their profession on my mother's birth certificate but I also have some family photographs of them in their stage personae.

Arthur's stage name was Harry MAY and Mabel's was Isa MAY.  They went variously under the names of "The Two Mays" or  "Isa and Harry".  Isabel also went under a separate stage name of Isa BERNARD and sometimes Betty BERNARD.  Arthur was sometimes Harry MAY and also Eddie MAY. All these names appear on photos that they have signed for well-wishers. Until very recently that was the sum total of my knowledge about my maternal grandparents. My mother died in 1997 and my father in 2007.  (Why don't we ask them more while we still can?)

Very recently I decided to do some investigation on the archives of "The Stage" newspaper and was thrilled to be able to uncover about 150 separate references to their appearances in Music Halls up and down the country from 1903 to 1925.  They styled themselves as a Comedy Duo.  One of Isa's photos says "Comedienne".  In adverts from "The Stage" she was also termed a Soubrette.  The various appearances were in well known theatres all over England, Wales and Ireland. I have no records of them appearing in Scotland. Strangely in one cutting they appeared as Arthur Lloyd and Maida Raymond (using his christian names and her maiden surname).

Harry and Isa were married in Camberwell, London in 1908 but were appearing together as early as 1904. Before 1904 Harry seems to have started his acting career in North Wales where he was born.  I am not sure what took them to Hastings but there is a reference to them both appearing there in 1905. Hastings was, of course, one of the birthplaces of the seaside musical and variety show which may account for their presence.
I also recall my mother saying that they were also Pierrots and one photograph shows a Pierrot Troupe.  The Stage newspaper contains references to "The White Coons" (1908) and to "Uncle Tom's Eastbourne Minstrels" (1913). 

So far so good!  However, the plot thickens.  My mother later had a step-father called Thomas Edwards.  He was born in London and emigrated to Canada in 1914.  He enlisted in the Canadian Expeditionary Force and sailed back to Britain - en route for the Somme - in 1915.  At one stage he was evacuated to the UK and spent time in hospital in Seaford but returned to the Front in September 1918. Shortly thereafter he was awarded the Military Medal for bravery in the field.  Thanks to friends and descendants of his Canadian Battalion I have a cutting detailing his award. He was finally discharged in April 1919.

I never knew how my mother came to have a step-father. Then, by chance, I found reference to the birth of Thomas Edwards' son James in March 1919.  Obtaining a copy of the birth certificate I was very surprised to find out that his mother was "Isabel Edwards formerly Raymond". The birth of his son to Isabel was registered in Hastings in May 1919 which will have been just after his discharge.

So why did Isa and Harry split up? The records from The Stage show them performing together right up to 1925.  More mysteriously, did Isabel and Thomas actually marry?  The reason I ask this is that, after further research, I uncovered Isabel's death certificate. This shows she died in Hastings in 1935 aged 47 and shown on it as:

"Isabel Mabel Jones, commonly known as Edwards.  Widow of Harry Jones an Actor (Stage)."  I am still trying to find a record of Arthur (Harry's) death.

Offline Black Adder

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Re: Tracing my grandfather - Arthur Lloyd Jones (Harry Jones or Harry or Eddie May)
« Reply #13 on: Friday 09 October 20 12:31 BST (UK) »
Any one following my post about my search for my Grandfather who disappeared in the 1920s, might be interested to know that I seem to have unlocked the mystery.  I have found a burial record and gravestone photo from Chester that lists him under one of his stage names of Harry but says, alongside, aka Arthur Lloyd. Those with whom he is buried are definite family ancestors.
I am attaching a copy of the Find a Grave record courtesy of that website.

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Tracing my grandfather - Arthur Lloyd Jones (Harry Jones or Harry or Eddie May)
« Reply #14 on: Friday 09 October 20 12:48 BST (UK) »
That's great news
Thanks for updating .
JONES & LLOYDs are hard enough to find when they don't remarry or have aliases
Did you ever find your grandmother Isabella s marriage to Thomas Edwards father .?
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Offline Black Adder

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Re: Tracing my grandfather - Arthur Lloyd Jones (Harry Jones or Harry or Eddie May)
« Reply #15 on: Friday 09 October 20 13:19 BST (UK) »
That's great news
Thanks for updating .
JONES are hard enough to find when they don't remarry or have alias Did you ever find your grandmother Isabella s marriage to Thomas Edwards father .?

Thank you brigidmac. Section of grandmother's death certificate attached. No record of any marriage to Thomas Edwards

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: Tracing my grandfather - Arthur Lloyd Jones (Harry Jones or Harry or Eddie May)
« Reply #16 on: Friday 09 October 20 16:46 BST (UK) »
Great to have the update - thanks for taking the time to post it.

So you were convinced that Harry and Isa were performing together 'up to 1925' which cannot be correct if you've found Harry's death in 1922.

Have you managed to resolve this anomaly?
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex

Offline Black Adder

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Re: Tracing my grandfather - Arthur Lloyd Jones (Harry Jones or Harry or Eddie May)
« Reply #17 on: Friday 09 October 20 17:31 BST (UK) »
Great to have the update - thanks for taking the time to post it.

So you were convinced that Harry and Isa were performing together 'up to 1925' which cannot be correct if you've found Harry's death in 1922.

Have you managed to resolve this anomaly?
Thanks for your interest.  Yes; I agree that my previous assumptions may be wrong. I took them from numerous advertisements in The Stage paper. In fact, after 1921, there is reference to Isa Bernard (sometimes Betty Bernard) and "Eddie May". There is also a cutting about her and "Eddie Cameron". From 1922 onwards she only seems to feature as described without Harry.  I erroneously assumed that Eddie May was another stage pseudonym he adopted. Maybe not.  I also heard from the Cheshire Archivist today and his address at death was apparently 144a Brownlow Hill, Liverpool. On checking, this was the address of the large Liverpool Workhouse/Infirmary. Was he an out of work actor by then? An advert from 1921 sees him selling stage props in Bournemouth. "Forced by illness".  Cheshire gave me the reference of his death certificate and I have this on order.