Toal, Toule, Toil, Toll, Toole, O'Toole... all Antrim

[Sherry Campbell]

The only Toal farm in the parish in both the tithes (1834) and Griffiths (1862) is John Toal in Lurgan West, so I suspect that’s where your family had their farm even if they were living in Ballytresna in the early 1860s.

Elwyn.. for clarification... if I were to put in a place of birth in my family tree would I put it as "Lurgan West, Drummaul Parish, County Antrim, Northern Ireland" ? or is there some other way of addressing that

[Elwyn Soutter]

I agree that by John’s death it looks as though the family had moved away from the farm. They went to Ballytresna for some reason. Perhaps staying with a relative. Martha was living there in 1855 so she at least had left Lurgan West by then.

Ballymena isn’t where they were living when they married. They just married there (in the Register Office).  The place where they were living, is on the marriage certificate – Ballytresna. In all 3 marriages.

I think the Toal family was RC, and I think all 3 girls all married Presbyterians. Mixed marriages often caused difficulties when it came to deciding which church to marry in. No matter what you decided, one family was bound to be offended, and the answer for some couples, was to marry in a Register Office. A safe no man’s land if you like.  Ballytresna is in the Ballymena Register Office catchment area. There’s just the 1 Register Office in the area. So that’s why they would have gone there. But they didn’t live in Ballymena.

From what you say, after the marriages, the girls adopted their husband’s denomination but I don’t think they were Presbyterian before that. I have not come across any Presbyterian Toal families in the Randalstown area. All are RC. And the 1901 census tends to bear that out. I don’t see any protestant Toal families in the area at all. (And the Ordnance Survey memoirs seem to suggest the Lurgan West family was RC too).  And that is probably why your DNA results connect with RC families.

For the place of birth, I would put Lurgan West, Randalstown, Co Antrim. That would have been the postal address in the 19th century. (The modern address would be Mountshalgus Lane, Randalstown BT41). But you haven’t actually proven they were born there yet. Only that their likely father lived there between at least 1834 and around 1861. They may have been born there but without a baptism to confirm it you can’t be certain. The Drummaul RC baptism records start in about 1825 and are on the nli site. Have you checked them?

[Sherry Campbell]

If John Toal family lived/farmed at Lurgan West, Randalstown, Co Antrim in the 1834 and 1864 Griffiths Valuation then I thought it was pretty safe to assume the children born from 1834 to 1845 would have been born at home... as a starting point in hopes of actually finding a record.

The other line I'm connected to but not sure how yet... I know that Francis Toal's (born about 1830) marriage was in Duneane Church, Ballymena, Antrim, Northern Ireland on April 7, 1850 but the woman researching that family only found it in a registry and not the actual record. Some of the couple's kids are listed as born in Toome, some Belfast, some Scotland.. and then some are back getting married in ireland and that's where Francis and his wife die... and then same lady has Rose Toal no birth/death dates but showing as marrying at Dunean, Down, and, Connor, Antrim, Northern Ireland in 1839.

[Elwyn Soutter]

Here’s a link to the actual record of Francis Toal’s marriage to Mary Keagan on 7th April 1850. It was in Duneane RC parish. So it took place in either Cargin or Moneyglass chapels (there were 2 churches in the parish at that time) and it was an RC ceremony.

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633174#page/78/mode/1up

Duneane isn’t Ballymena. It’s about 15 miles from Ballymena. I think some of the internet sites get the locations a bit confused. Duneane is the parish immediately to the west of Drummaul (Randalstown) and covers the area between Randalstown and the banks of the Bann, which is where Co. Londonderry starts.

Down & Connor is the bishop’s administrative district which includes most of counties Antrim & Down.  It isn’t where the folk lived just the diocese (bishop’s administrative area) where the event occurred. Like being born in New York state means you might be born anywhere in that area.

I can’t comment on the locations of the children’s births save to say that it was very common for people from the Randalstown area to go and work in Scotland. Easy and cheap to get to, better employment prospects, and easy to come home for a wedding or a holiday. So nothing unusual about finding people from the Randalstown area with children born in Scotland (usually in the area around Glasgow).

Here’s a link to Rose Toal’s marriage on 10.11.1839 in Duneane. Again an RC ceremony:

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633172#page/49/mode/1up

Her spouse appears on Ancestry as James Kurgan but that’s not a common local name, and I would not be certain that is correct. (James is OK but the surname might be something else).

[Sherry Campbell]

Thank you... I've been looking for Toal in Drumaul of that site.. am I looking for mine in wrong place?
... and those records you sent are both Kerrigan. That's another reason its hard to place who the Toal families belong to... James Kerrigan married Rose Toal and their daughter, Rose Kerrigan, married Francis Toal... those are the two records you linked. And are these not just indexes? Where would the actual records with all of the information be found? Like here in Canada we have that the exact same way... my Thomas Toal marriage is in index saying
#001872 - Thomas Toal and Mary Ann Campbell married June 19, 1874 - Carleton Co
.. and then you look up that record and it says....
001872-74 (Carleton Co): Thomas TOAL, 38, farmer, Co Antrim Ireland, Hull, s/o John TOAL & Jane THOMPSON married Mary CAMPBELL, 20, Lachelier PQ, Wakefield PQ, d/o Malcolm CAMPBELL & Elespie McKENZIE. Wit: Hugh DOGHERTY of Wakefield and Thomas MOORE of Chelsea. June 19, 1874 at Ottawa

[Elwyn Soutter]

The link that I gave takes you to an image of the actual marriage register. It not an index and there is no additional information to be found in other church records.  Statutory marriage registration began in 1864 for RC marriages and 1845 for non RC.  The statutory records contain a bit more information but prior to that you have to rely on church records. Often all they contain is the couples names, their 2 witnesses and the date. That was all that was required by the church at that time. Sometimes you get a townland or an occupation but often not.