Author Topic: Date of photo of unknown child-photo taken in America wooden frame  (Read 598 times)

Offline Lisa in California

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Date of photo of unknown child-photo taken in America wooden frame
« on: Thursday 26 April 18 00:11 BST (UK) »
When my mother-in-law passed away several years ago we inherited several small boxes of treasured family mementos; we placed the contents of the boxes into two "totes" to try to keep out the moisture as our house can get very damp.  Unfortunately, it appears that when we merged the contents of the boxes into the totes, we merged the family mementos from my mother-in-law's side as well as possibly from two branches of my father-in-law's side.  Very few of the older items are identified (no names).

While looking through the totes again today, I found the photograph shown below.  It appears to be in a wooden frame.  My in-laws' ancestors lived in Pennsylvania and Tennessee and after 1875, in California.

I would like to find out, please, the approximate date of the photograph, the child's age and possible gender (male?) as well as if the frame was a common frame.  While I've seen very few old photographs and frames (compared to most of you)  ;) I've not seen a similar frame before.  Any guidance about the photograph would be wonderful.  Thank you for reading my lengthy summary.  Lisa
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)

Offline jim1

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Re: Date of photo of unknown child-photo taken in America wooden frame
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 26 April 18 11:06 BST (UK) »
I'm afraid there's going to be a broad window for this. It could be from the Edwardian Era & into the 20's.
My thought is around WW1-early 20's.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Lisa in California

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Re: Date of photo of unknown child-photo taken in America wooden frame
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 26 April 18 14:25 BST (UK) »
Thank you very much for your reply, jim1; it is very helpful knowing the approximate date (that it isn't as old as I had originally thought!).  After posting the question, I continued to look at the tote contents and found a couple of other photos of babies who could have been this little child.  One child (a girl - related to my m-i-l) was born in 1906, the other baby (a boy - related to my f-i-l) was born in 1920.

Last night, after looking at the frame again, I thought perhaps it was a wooden back with plaster on the front.  Researching old wooden/plaster frames, I did find an internet site that has a similar frame for sale and it was shown as a "vintage frame plaque" (vintage, not antique) which led me to believe that my frame is not as old as I originally thought.

Given the condition of the frame (not the deterioration of it, but the colouring - it is darker than the posted photograph shows), I originally thought the photo was pre-1900 but then the photograph would not have been in colour?

Given what I know about the families, I believe it is more likely that the photograph is of the little girl who was born in 1906.

Thank you again very much for your reply.  :)  Lisa
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)

Offline Mike Morrell (NL)

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Re: Date of photo of unknown child-photo taken in America wooden frame
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 26 April 18 16:25 BST (UK) »
Hi Lisa, (we named one of our 2 - now adult - daughters Lisa too, so starting a message with "Hi Lisa," seems so familiar :) )

I might be completely imagining this, but when I zoom in close (200%-250%) on the back, I think I can just vaguely make out a regular pattern of what look to be numbers just above the "V" on the bottom. With a photo of this resolution/quality, I can't read them. But if the frame maker (as they sometimes used to) inscribed the date, this would be helpful in dating the photo.

I could be completely wrong about this! Perhaps random patterns just looked 'regular' on my laptop screen. So you should convince yourself that there might be something there before investing any time and money in making these clearer.

Maybe you can check this yourself with a magnifying glass (or pair of binoculars? ;)). A strong light (low down) across the surface from one side usually makes the 'texture' much clearer. "Rubbing" the contours (as people do in old churches) might also help. A third option is to have that part of back of the scanned at a very high resolution (at print shop?) 600 - 2400 dpi and 'digitally enhance" the scanned image to make the numbers/letters (if that's what they are) clearer. A fourth option (if you know anyone) is to find a photographer who's into 'macro photography'. He/she too will usually have the equipment to bring 1 square inch sharply into focus onto a photo of 10,000 x 10,000 pixels. He/she will usually be able to enhance it for you too to bring out the details. Of course many restorers at Rootschat would be happy to help too (as we do in making faded handwriting more legible).

As you can tell, I enjoy solving photographic puzzles! I'm hopeless at dating fashions and styles so I try to look for possible other clues.

Hope this helps,

Mike

PS. If not, I enjoyed the exercise anyway :)



Photo restorers may re-use and improve on my posted versions. Acknowledgement appreciated.


Offline Lisa in California

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Re: Date of photo of unknown child-photo taken in America wooden frame
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 26 April 18 20:56 BST (UK) »
Hi Mike:

The funny thing is, I've never appreciated (can't think of a better word) my name.  My brother was named after two people who meant a lot to my family; I was given my first and middle names because they were pretty-sounding.  The historian in the family (me) got the pretty names; the person who is as far-removed from genealogy as can possibly be was named after family.  In a small way, it's nice to know that my name actually now has a bit of meaning.  :)

I just looked at the frame again.  While I cannot see a pattern (if I'm looking in the correct place), I feel that I can see a "4".  What appears to be a "C" to the right of it, I believe, is the remnant of a paint bubble.  I've tried your suggestions and my own ideas of trying to get a better glimpse of the area, to no avail, so far.  My younger (adult) son has a jewellery loop (which is stronger than a magnifying glass); I will use that when he comes home.  I realize that there may not be a date, but it is fun to search for one and I've learned more about the frame!

What is amazing (I'm thrilled by the tiniest of details)  ;) is that while looking at the back, I noticed fingerprints (a relative's?  the framemaker's?).  This lead me to find out that the frame is not dark brown, it was at one time gold.  While the frame has gold highlights, all I noticed when I first saw the frame and photo was how it was so dark (and even with time and wear which should alter the original colour) why would someone place a child's photo in that frame?

My older son is an amateur photographer.  When we see see him again, I will see if he can take a macro photo.  (He obviously didn't inherit his photography skills and knowledge from me.)  ;D

Thank you very much for giving me so many ways to search for a possible date and for your interest.  I will be sure to let you and others know if I find out anything more.  Thank you, Mike.  Lisa
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)

Offline Lisa in California

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Re: Date of photo of unknown child-photo taken in America wooden frame
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 26 April 18 22:16 BST (UK) »
...After posting the question, I continued to look at the tote contents and found a couple of other photos of babies who could have been this little child.  One child (a girl - related to my m-i-l) was born in 1906, the other baby (a boy - related to my f-i-l) was born in 1920....

The girl whom I thought could have been in the photo was actually born in 1910, not 1906 (her sister was born in 1906).  So that puts the photo closer to jim1's suggestion.

I took another photograph - this one includes three photos:
the originally-posted photo
photo of the baby who was born in 1910 (her name is on the back, so I know who she was)
photo of a child, dated 1915 (I believe she was a cousin of the 1910 baby)

Again, given what I know about the "1910 family" and the "1915 family" and looking at the contents of our totes, I believe the originally-posted photograph is the little girl who was born in 1910.

jim1, your knowledge was of tremendous help.  Mike, I learned a lot about the photo and frame, thanks to your suggestions (and I'll now scrutinize photos in the future).

If I find out her true identity, I will advise.  At least now I know the approximate date of the photo and possibly from which branch of the tree she belonged and that means a lot to me.  Thank you, Lisa
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)