Fresh Thoughts needed - Duffy/Hawthorn 1880 Marriage

[Real Lee History]

I'm 'going in circles' with this one at the moment and would like 'fresh thoughts / confirming thoughts'.

Known Facts

John Duffy 1861 (Ireland) married Mary Hawthorn(e) in Salford, Lancashire - 5 children including my Grandfather Joseph b.1893 Salford Lancashire.

Mary 'disappears' (can't locate death details) and second wife 'Elizabeth'. A month or so ago I had Rootschat help with Elizabeth b America and am happy with this part of John's history.

GRO shows 5 children with MMn confirmed eg

Grandad -

DUFFY, JOSEPH     
HAWTHORN 
GRO Reference: 1893  J Quarter in SALFORD  Volume 08D  Page 134


Mary & John Duffy Marriage shows 1882 Salford St Batholomews (Volume 8D Page 147)

Mary Hawthorn - fitting with fathers name (Robert) located shows born 1872.

Mary & John first child located - James Duffy b 1885


Everything tells me that Mary could not have been 10years at marriage and 13 with first child BUT I cannot find a 'different' Mary.

To me it looks like I have the wrong Mary and Hawthorn(e) line but Salford Lancashire and family memories that the Hawthorn's were Occupation in Dyers all fits with Robert Hawthorn who had a Mary which fits. (but the age doesn't sit well).

If anyone has better records or sources could any light be shed.?

Appreciate it may be obvious but regular visits don't change the root i'm on.

Thanks

[philipsearching]

Just a few questions for clarification:

Does the info about Robert HAWTHORN come from the marriage cert of John & Mary in 1882?  If not, what is the source?

Have you checked for Robert and daughter Mary on the 1881 census (in case there is more than one).

What is the source for Mary HAWTHORN's birth in 1872? (census, BMD or other)

I am optimistic we can help you crack this one.
Philip

[Real Lee History]

Just a few questions for clarification:

Does the info about Robert HAWTHORN come from the marriage cert of John & Mary in 1882?  If not, what is the source?

Have you checked for Robert and daughter Mary on the 1881 census (in case there is more than one).

What is the source for Mary HAWTHORN's birth in 1872? (census, BMD or other)

I am optimistic we can help you crack this one.
Philip

Thanks Philip

Birth Cert - the only located 'correct' in Salford / timeframe Mary through 'Family Search' shows Robert as Father and Elizabeth as mother. (Have since investigated Elizabeths maiden name to Davies, but if the wrong line, obviously this means little)

I have searched Hawthorn in the 1881 census through FreeCen (which is my only access apart from Family Search details) and searching Hawthorn / Manchester or Hawthorn/Lancs doesn't bring any records.

Therefore I have not definitive Census 1881 proof.

As not a paying member of sites eg Ancestry all of my research is Family Search / WikiTree search or free sites such as FReeBMD / GRO or FreeCen etc

[philipsearching]

Sorry, you'll have to forgive my obtuseness but I'm still not quite clear.

Do you have the marriage certificate for John and Mary in 1882?

[rosie99]

Could you please give the full information from the 1882 marriage certificate including witnesses

Got the red message Philip but posted anyway 

[MonicaL]

Hi there

Just been reading through the other thread www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=790993.0

Am I right in thinking that you don't have an 1891 census that fits so far, to include also the chilren from son James born 1885?

Monica

[Real Lee History]

Sorry, you'll have to forgive my obtuseness but I'm still not quite clear.

Do you have the marriage certificate for John and Mary in 1882?

Could you please give the full information from the 1882 marriage certificate including witnesses

Got the red message Philip but posted anyway 

Marriage Certificate located through Family Search

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DTC-QB7

It shows 1882 Salford - Mary Hawthorn and at the bottom .....'Probably Married one of these ... Charles Field, Sarah Ann Hudson, John Duffy

I have not got my hands on the real Marriage Cert - working off the online found one

[rosie99]

You really need to purchase that certificate 
Lancashirebmd shows it is in Registry Office or Registrar attended so probably not available to view online

What you found is not the marriage certificate but the GRO index

[Real Lee History]

Hi there

Just been reading through the other thread www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=790993.0

Am I right in thinking that you don't have an 1891 census that fits so far, to include also the chilren from son James born 1885?

Monica

Just recalled that I Have Ancestry Free weekend printed 1891 Census which just shows John Duffy and Mary (Wife) aged 28.

A quick look shows no children on census - which now adds confusion.

1901 Census shows John with now Elizabeth and children from James (16) to Henry (1)