Author Topic: 1895 German birth certificate  (Read 1891 times)

Offline lucymags

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1895 German birth certificate
« on: Monday 21 May 18 09:39 BST (UK) »
I received this as a PDF and created a jpeg via screenshot in order to lighten it up a bit, but that's not very clear either, so have attached both.

It's a (presumably civil) registration of the birth of a child of English parents in Heidelberg, whilst her father was head of an English college (Neuenheim) there. (Of some incidental interest, Oscar Wilde's sons boarded there for a while, after scandal broke in England!)

I can glean most of what it says, including the names (Henry Clapcott Girdlestone, wife Evelyn Sophia, of Pennington, Lymington, Hants, daughter Dorothy Mary Evelyn), but a bit confused by the dates and what the note on the side is all about. The earliest date I think I can see is 17th September - is this her birth date?

If there's anything else useful, I'd appreciate anything anyone can tell me.

Offline Karen McDonald

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Re: 1895 German birth certificate
« Reply #1 on: Monday 21 May 18 12:20 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I'm a bit confused, because for the day of brth it looks like "Viehrenzehnten". Whether it is vierzehnten (14th) with some extra squiggles or I'm seeing it completely wrong, I don't know...

Maybe davecapps can help - he is a true Meister at things like this.  :)

In the cert itself, the little girl has not yet been named. As you have worked out, her name is shown in the note on the left, which I need to take a better look at on a bigger screen.

Karen

Edit: The note on the left is, as far as I can make out, an official addition (including Henry's occupation and full address) stating that the baby had been given the first names Dorothy Mary Evelyne.
It does look as though it says that the baby was born on the 17th September, but there is a weird line under the numbers which doesn't really belong there, and I still can't see "Siebzehnten" in the actual certificate.
Let's see what Dave makes of it!
McDonald MacDonald M'Donald McGregor MacGregor M'Gregor Twilley Wells Fentiman Carrington Rowe Needham Mitchell Mackie Collingwood Fuller Maides Shilton Hagon Budd

Offline lucymags

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Re: 1895 German birth certificate
« Reply #2 on: Monday 21 May 18 12:41 BST (UK) »
Hi Karen

Thanks for this. I know her name was Dorothy Mary Evelyn from other documents (and her mother's family had several Evelyns - the "e" at the end was perhaps a German version?!), and her parents' names, but the rest is pretty obscure to me. I need help with the transcription as well as translation on this one!

No rush - I won't be getting back to this record until tomorrow at least.

(Beautiful dog, btw - have I said that before?  :) )

Offline JustinL

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Re: 1895 German birth certificate
« Reply #3 on: Monday 21 May 18 13:36 BST (UK) »
The cert reads, "Siebenzehten September des Jahres tausend acht hundert neunzig und fünf Mittags um zwölf Uhr", i.e. 17th September 1895 at midday at 12:00.

Compare the "S" in "Siebenzehnten" to the "S" in "Seiner" in the line above.

Karen has correctly translated the note in the left margin.

Justin


Offline lucymags

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Re: 1895 German birth certificate
« Reply #4 on: Monday 21 May 18 14:23 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Justin.
 :)

Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: 1895 German birth certificate
« Reply #5 on: Monday 21 May 18 14:40 BST (UK) »
Slightly off-topic, but in case it comes up again:

siebzehnten / siebenzehnten ??

That was a surprise for me (even after years in Germany) so I looked it up, and it doesn*t come often, but it does (or did) come up now and then !
e.g. Christian Ludvig Ernst Stemann: Schleswigs Recht und Gerichtsverfassung im siebenzehnten Jahrhundert. T. van der Smissen, 1855, Seite 1 (zitiert nach Google Books).

It was probably shortened by common-usage" ... sechs-zehn, sieben-zehn, acht-zehn, ...".
There is something similar in english with "thir-teen (instead of three-teen, four-teen, fif-teen (instead of five-teen), six-teen, ...".

Although in english and german eleven and twelve (elf, zwölf) don't 'fit' in the "add -teen (-zehn) to 1-9 to get the "teenagers". Maybe from the french origins ?

Bob
Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Online davecapps

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Re: 1895 German birth certificate
« Reply #6 on: Monday 21 May 18 19:45 BST (UK) »
I totally agree with Justin and Karen´s translation is also correct.
Karen, the line under the 17 is the top stroke of the "K" in Kind

Dave

Offline Karen McDonald

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Re: 1895 German birth certificate
« Reply #7 on: Monday 21 May 18 21:44 BST (UK) »
@lucymags
Thanks - we think Alasdair is beautiful, too!  :)

@Justin & Dave
Thanks for clearing things up.
I was thrown by the fact that the "S" in "Siebenzehnten" is absolutely nothing like the "S" in September at the top of the certificate!

@Bob
Good question!
This website is interesting:
http://mentalfloss.com/article/76007/why-it-eleven-twelve-instead-oneteen-twoteen


Karen
McDonald MacDonald M'Donald McGregor MacGregor M'Gregor Twilley Wells Fentiman Carrington Rowe Needham Mitchell Mackie Collingwood Fuller Maides Shilton Hagon Budd

Offline lucymags

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Re: 1895 German birth certificate
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 22 May 18 07:24 BST (UK) »
Thank you all - much appreciated.  :)

Just one more thing, please - am I correct in assuming that the bit after his name, ending in "No. 28" is their home address, which is the college? It's also on the main part of the form - Heidelberg, [...] Neuenheim, [...hofstrasse?] No. 28?