Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[Tickettyboo]

RTL said that the article about James and the workhouse
appeared in the Shields Daily News on Wednesday 5 September 1923

So filter by the year, month and day, also filter by the newspaper. Type Batista in the surname box, press search and up comes two articles.

Boo

[Love&Leaves]

Found it - Battista is with one 'T' so perhaps that's why its never come up before.  Was thinking perhaps the reason Lily hasn't come up is because she was Spence or Guthrie, not Battista so I'll search those names.

[Love&Leaves]

Just got a reply from the Newcastle Register Office - they can't/don't/won't provide copies of the actual register...

"Unfortunately there  is  no  provision  for  the  public  to  inspect  registers  once  they  have  passed  into the superintendent registrar’s custody"

What a shame  . So no chance of getting a copy of 'Pasquale's' signature to compare with Pasqualino's.

[Tickettyboo]

What did you ask them?

If you asked if they, like the GRO , photocopy the original entry from the register they hold on to any certificate they issue, ( I don't have any certs issued by Newcastle Registrars to compare) or if they handwrite the certs to order,  then it sounds like they don't photocopy the original entries in which case you won't ever get to see the original signatures because, as they say, the public are not allowed to view the original registers they hold.

Boo

[River Tyne Lass]

That is such a shame that the original records seem to be out of bounds.

battista, I am glad to hear that Pasquale's baptism find has been useful in providing more evidence of Elizabeth's background.

Sophie, I am glad you have been able to find James' articles - if not I would have posted these for you on here if you wanted.  He and the workhouse master don't seem to have got on well. 

[Love&Leaves]

Hmmmm... I have found a very tenuous link between 'Pasquale' and Marieta's son Loretto and Pasqualino......

1891 Census - Pasqualino (aged 12 with his mother, father and family) are resident at 83 Clive St, Tynemouth (with one other family, the Gianandrea's)

1907 - Loretto Battista is born and baptised, godparents Fransico & Joanna RANDO.

1911 Census - Francesco & Giovanna RANDO head resident at 82 Clive St, Tynemouth.  Appears to be a lodging house for Italian Seamen - Francesco's occupation is Boarding House Keeper.

I know there is a 20 year gap between Pasqualino being at Clive St and the Rando's (neither are there on 1901) but its another coincidence to add to the list 

[River Tyne Lass]

Sophie, this is great that you are finding so many links and leads on this story.  I think you are such a great ally for battista in trying to get the mystery of Giovanno solved!  Who knows when one of these bits may be the means of leading to the solving of the puzzling case - so I think this is commendable that you are leaving no stone unturned.

I was able to call in but very briefly to the library and noticed in the Wards Directory for 1922 that

Rando F.  82 Clive Street  licensed lodgings

Frank Rando death registered at Tynemouth 1947 age 76 Vol 1b 642

Also, might this have been a son? Francesco Rando  December Quarter 1912 age 0  Vol 10b 311

I didn't have time to check but I suspect these two may likely be in Preston Cemetery.

Might Francesco have married Johanna Cavazzi in Newcastle in Sep quarter 1907?

ADDED: Yes, I think so as baby Francesco who died at Tynemouth was born in December quarter 1912 with mmn Cavazzi.  I wonder who parents witnesses may have been at their wedding - perhaps members of the Battista family?  Maybe even Pasquale?

I wonder if Giovanni might have died somewhere in the North East but perhaps registered under a slightly different name?  There seem so many variations of the name Battista.  Perhaps this might be an idea to look for any such possibilities in the future.  If this is what happened and he was registered with a misleading name it might still be possible eventually to find him in a death notice in either the Shields Daily News or the Newcastle Evening Chronicle.  That is if he did die in this area.  As Giovanni had a few trades - tailor, ice cream seller, musician - it might be possible that he ranged over the North East area and may have died elsewhere to Newcastle or North Shields, perhaps. 

[Love&Leaves]

Thanks RTL - you'll agree tat genealogy is an addiction! 

I think you've found the right Rando's - they have a son called Guiseppe on the 1911 census. 

It makes sense to me that Pasqualino/Giovanni may have been involved in or linked to lodging houses of this sort.  My GGGfather Vincenzo was known for being a go between for the Italian immigrant community and the Italian Consulate - we have a letter from the consulate written to his widow expressing their respect and appreciation.  I am looking through all I have on my branch to see if the Rando name pops up anywhere.  Unfortunately the godparents of 'Pasquales' other sons Antonio and Bernardo were Di Carlo's so there's no lead there.  I do have the name Anthony Fanoni though, who witnessed Pasquale's marriage to Marieta.. perhaps that name will pop up in relation to our Battista's.

I agree that Giovanni's death could well have been registered under a name variation - there are a lot of options at the moment.  In this regard, I want to follow up John George's marriage certificate.  Having seen the newspaper memoriam from his wife Emma, I am sure that this is our John George - so would like to know more about 'Johan' and his occupation as Customs House Officer as well as his child.

[River Tyne Lass]

Yes, I wonder who was his child?

Yes, genealogy is an addiction and once started it can be hard to stop digging ..  unlike my experiences in my real garden.