Author Topic: Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]  (Read 10798 times)

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]
« Reply #297 on: Sunday 18 November 18 13:12 GMT (UK) »
Probably in no way relevant to the Battista story, Sophie but when I was at the archives on Friday I did come across the baptism for baby 'Franciscus' Rando born 6 September and baptised 9 October (1912) at St Cuthbert North Shields.  Godparents were Antonio De Carlo and (....tita?) De Carlo.  Address 82 Clive Street.  Parents married at St Andrew RC Newcastle on 11 September 1907.  His address 82 Clive Street North Shields and hers 5 Erick Street.  Witnesses were B ...? Nicolo & Matilda? Cavazzi.

I found these so thought I might as well post these on the off chance they may be of some relevance at some point in the future somewhere.
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

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Offline Sophie78

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Re: Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]
« Reply #298 on: Sunday 02 December 18 20:20 GMT (UK) »
Fab thanks RTL!  I think it will certainly make sense very soon!
Walton, Battista, Moss, Maybury, Armstrong, Walker, Greenup, Norman, Holliday, Steele, Palmer, Graham, Sieverdink

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Offline sidco9

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battista
« Reply #299 on: Friday 18 January 19 18:21 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

I am a descendant of Antonio, he was my great, great Grandfather. I have located and marked his grave in Elswick Cementary. Buried in the grave is his wife Christina and there first born Angelo.
I have also located Vincenzos grave as well as his daughters Nicola who is buried next to him. I have also located Antonios also, Vincenzos son, all graves are now marked and have flowers on them. If you want locations let me know.

Darren     

Offline Sophie78

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Re: Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]
« Reply #300 on: Sunday 27 January 19 19:34 GMT (UK) »
Hey all!

Hope you had a good xmas RTL and are well  :)

Nice you've joined the thread Darren.. looking forward to coming to Newcastle soon, meeting up and visiting Elswick Cemetery to see all your hard work x

I have a little update for the thread... had a Battista family get together last week and got my hands on quite a bit of new information. 

Amongst it all was a marriage certificate for Remigio Battista... his address at the time of the marriage in 1911 was 14 Princess Street... the same as Marieta De Carlo's address on her marriage to Pasqualino in 1906 (albeit no.16).  I think this address was probably another Italian immigrant lodging house.. judging by the 1911 census.  Still a bit tenuous given the 5 year gap and the generic nature of the premises however... another piece of evidence to prove the Battista's and the De Carlo's moved in the same close circles.

And another nugget to add to Giovanni's branches story... after John George's death his WW1 war pension was claimed by another woman, other than Emma Anderson!  So it seems he may have also had two families.... Isabella Wilson Griffiths noted herself as his "unmarried wife" and claimed for herself and her child.  So it seems he had two partners by whom he had two children  :o
Walton, Battista, Moss, Maybury, Armstrong, Walker, Greenup, Norman, Holliday, Steele, Palmer, Graham, Sieverdink

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]
« Reply #301 on: Tuesday 29 January 19 10:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sophie,

Yes, I am well thanks, after short health scare at the end of last year .. all okay.

I hope you are well too .. how exciting that you will be coming to Newcastle soon and will be able to visit the Elswick Cemetery and see all of Darren's hard work. 

Sophie, you are all so fortunate to have all this clan coming together on this family history of yours. :)  Hopefully, all this plugging away to find nuggets of information will one day pay off and what happened to Giovanni will finally be revealed.  I think this is the right thing to do as in my own experience of brick walls I know it can take a lot of patience and constant chipping away to finally make a break through.

Regarding John George's 'unmarried wife'  what an astounding revelation.  And the fact that he had two children.  It is so long ago, I presume these two will no longer be alive now.

Do you know more about Isabella?  Was she a North Shields resident? 

This might explain why the  notice placed in the newspaper after John George's death was from his sister and not a 'wife'.  These things happen, I suppose, especially in the days when divorce was not very acceptable.

Best Wishes for your forthcoming trip to Newcastle! 
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline Catchugenta

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Re: Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]
« Reply #302 on: Sunday 03 February 19 11:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi to all you Battista's out there or descendants thereof.  My gt grandfather was the Vincenzo some of you have mentioned/ His birth was about 1853 and his elder brother Giovanni was born about 1847, there was also a younger brother called Antonio. Antonio and Vincenzo lived near each other in Newcastle and Giovanni lived in North Shields.

I have heard recently from 3 different sources of family descendants after believing for many years that Vincenzo was a 'good guy' that in fact although there was a big funeral for him in 1900 with over 300 people attending and black horses with plumes and carriages, that he actually either ran away or something else happened to him! Some say he left his wife and children with big debts and another source from a different side of the family say he was in trouble with the Mafia!

Could it be that Giovanni who seemed to disappear overnight with no death records found, that they disappeared at the same time or maybe together? If any of you out there have stories or info on this please share.  cheers....Catchugenta

Offline Sophie78

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Re: Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]
« Reply #303 on: Sunday 03 February 19 12:57 GMT (UK) »
Hey Catchugenta!  Nice to have you join the thread :)

After our conversations the other day about Vincenzo, it crossed my mind too that maybe the two brothers mysteries are intertwined!  ???

I am in contact with another cousin in Australia (descended from Marianna and William Bell).. I'm going to message her and see if there are any family stories from that branch regarding Vincenzo's death.

Xx
Walton, Battista, Moss, Maybury, Armstrong, Walker, Greenup, Norman, Holliday, Steele, Palmer, Graham, Sieverdink

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]
« Reply #304 on: Monday 11 February 19 11:48 GMT (UK) »
I wonder if the two brothers may be intertwined some way too regarding the disappearance of Giovanni?  I suppose we will have to wait and see if anything else emerges.

There is an article in the Shields Daily News - 8 November 1906 regarding Lily Spence having been a witness at an inquest of her friend Jane Elizabeth Robson.  A Norwegian seaman 'Lyder Martin Larsen seems to have been implicated in the death and it seems he was the boyfriend of the latter.  He appears to have been a violent person.  They all seemed to have gone out together to the theatre with a man called William Sullivan.  I think this article might show that the Battistas (or at least Lily) may not have been mixing with the most safest of people.

May be linked - in 1905 a William Sullivan assaults a Francis Spence - this appears in Shields Daily News 12 July 1905.

Regarding the unmarried wife of John George - who has been mentioned - Isabella Griffiths Wilson.  An address is given of 70 Waterloo Rd, Blyth.  There is also a guardian of the child named - 'Elizabeth Robson'.  I do not know anything about this guardian, but I do wonder if this Elizabeth might be John George's sister Elizabeth Ann Battista who left the workhouse with her son John?  She may not be of course, but I am just wondering if there is a link.

I cannot access the Ward's Directories for Blyth but there may have been someone recorded in them under this address at that time - payments appear to have been started 1928/29. 

Also, I have recently heard a suggestion that Vincent Battista may have possibly served in the Great War as Frank Vincent Spence.  Possibly having taken on the name is his sister's husband.

 https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results?firstName=Frank&initial=F%2BV&lastName=Spence&war=1

However, this is not confirmed as yet. 

Added: I think this must be him as this Georgina I think seems to be his sister, shown in link. :). Perhaps Georgina may have chosen his inscription.

This is very puzzling as this is different from the date of death of Vincent Battista who is commemorated in the Memorial Garden at Linskill - see photo I put up on post 168.  That gives date of death as 24.9.16. ???
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]
« Reply #305 on: Wednesday 13 February 19 09:33 GMT (UK) »
Just an update on my previous post.

Another researcher has since contacted me to inform me of their belief that Vincent did not die in Great War.  They say Frank Vincent Spence was Lily's husband.  They also believe that Vincent did not die until 1956 death registered Newcastle.

However, I think this might not be Giovanni's Vincent but one of his brother's sons who died 1956.

I think more research is needed on the whole Frank/Vincent war death.  It is very strange that Frank Vincent Spence is recorded as Georgina's brother. Also Frank may have been in KSOB not Middlesex Regiment - although I suppose he may have swtched:

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/illustratedchronicleww1/21265796373/in/photolist-ypbLnB
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner