Author Topic: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900  (Read 1982 times)

Offline richarde1979

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Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« on: Friday 25 May 18 12:32 BST (UK) »
I recently purchased a photo album for 20, which included a dozen or so photographs taken with a Kodak Brownie camera of Smiths, Boswells, Coopers, Powells and Hearns camped on Epsom Downs and in East Peckham, Surrey, taken sometime between 1899-1912.

These include four of a middle aged man called Mark Hearne, outside his tents with his family, camped on the downs with his donkey, and out working the streets with his grinding barrow, and two photographs of four children aged roughly 3-14, described by the photographer, as the 'Chavos of Render Smith'.

I am trying to track down some more details on these people. Fred Shaw of the Gypsy Lore Society took two photos at Saffron Green Lane, Arkley Hertfordshire on 10th April 1910, showing a Render Smith, wife Jemima (Miami) with two children Walter and Lydia [Liddy]. Presumably this is the same family. Charles Leland earlier refers to Render Smith in his 1882 book The Gypsies. I can't find any baptism for him though or any trace of this family in census records. There is a Surrender Smith, born circa 1834 on the 1861 census, who is apparently the same person who appears as Surrender Boswell, aged 8, on the 1841 census in Staffordshire, a son of Moses Boswell, and grandson of Viney Boswell. Obviously he is highly unlikey to be the same man with young children photographed in Surrey and Herts in 1910.

Mark Hearne may be the same man who appears on the 1881 census in Fulham, just a few miles away from where my photographer later took her pictures of him in East Peckham. He was then aged 30, his birthplace given as Watford, Hertfordshire, with a daughter Leander. Leander married her cousin John Hearne, son of Samson Hearn, at St James, Fulham, on Xmas Day 1895. Any more info on his family, or census sightings, would be appreciated.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

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Offline richarde1979

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #1 on: Friday 25 May 18 15:32 BST (UK) »
Update I have these two families on the 1911 census:


Aldenham, Radlett, Hertfordshire, England
Render Smith    Head,  Licensed Pedlar    M    69    Ipston, Oxfordshire
Mary Ann Smith    Wife       Licensed Pedlar F    57    West Bedfont Nr Staines, Middlesex
Panon Smith    Son        Licensed Pedlar M    28    Hendon, Middlesex
Walton Smith    Son          Licensed Pedlar M    23    Walton On Thames, Surrey
Lydia Smith    Daughter Licensed Pedlar     F    17    Walton On Thames, Surrey


Wealdstone, , Middlesex, England
Mark Hearne    Head, Pedlar,   M    60    Stanmore Midd
Sinneamenty Hearne    Wife    F    58    Northamptonshire
Samuel Smith    Brother, Hawker,    M    40    Warwickshire
Meshack Hearne    Son, Hawker,     M    28    Walham Green, London
William Pullen    Son-in-law    M    30    Battersea, London
Phoebe Pullen    Daughter    F    30    Walham Green, London
Mark Pullen    Grandson    M    12    Walham Green, London
Sinneamenty Pullen    Granddaughter    F    9    Mortlake, Surrey
William Pullen    Grandson    M    7    Wealdstone Midd
James Pullen    Grandson    M    5    Wealdstone Midd
Nathaniel Pullen    Grandson    M    1    Wealdstone Midd
James Simms    Boarder    M    28    Hendon Midd


I think that probably is the Mark in my photos. Info online suggests he was born John Mark Hearne, in Hawridge, Bucks,  married Sinamenty Smith in 1874, and had at least six children with her.

Render I am still not so sure on. The number and ages of the children in the photos doesn't match up so well with the census info.

Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

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Offline MaureeninNY

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #2 on: Friday 25 May 18 18:53 BST (UK) »
Is this the same SMITH family in 1901?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X96Y-CZL

Maureen

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #3 on: Friday 25 May 18 19:43 BST (UK) »
Render Smith - 1844 passed away March 1922 - Barnet Middlesex - 3a 528

Sandra
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Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #4 on: Friday 25 May 18 19:54 BST (UK) »
RG12 Piece 1050 Folio 10 Page 15

1891 Hendon, Middlesex,

Henry Smith   47 born Acton, London.
Mary Ann Smith   34 born Walton, Surrey.
Robert Smith   14 born Hendon.
Parrion Smith   9 born Teddington, Middlesex.
Agnes Smith   5 born Hendon.
Walter Smith   3 born Hendon.

Sandra
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #5 on: Friday 25 May 18 20:07 BST (UK) »
Parron Smith born 1882 - passed away March 1929 Barnet Middlesex. 3a 834

Sandra
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #6 on: Friday 25 May 18 20:20 BST (UK) »
Thank you Sandra that is very helpful. It does look like the same couple and could help date the photos as the first photo shows a boy of about 14 with another teenage girl, and two young girls, that could well be Walter Smith, 14, Lydia Smith,7 and Elizabeth Smith, 4, though the teenage girl is a mystery. The second photo shows the two teenage children with the youngest girl sitting on a basket outside their bender tent.

The actual photo album is undated, but I was able to work out it was manufactured between 1899-1917. The clothing looks typically Edwardian to me, so I had ruled out the later end of that range.

Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #7 on: Friday 25 May 18 20:26 BST (UK) »
1881 census is interesting - In A Tent Chertsey Lane Littleton Middlesex - no details for anyone - all unknown.

RG11 Piece 1326 Folio 59 Page 7

Henry Smith   40 No place of birth. No Occupation.
Margaret Smith   38
Henry Smith   18
Richard Smith   6
Robert Smith   4
Charles Pearce   16

Sandra
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Render Smith and Mark Hearne circa 1900
« Reply #8 on: Friday 25 May 18 20:34 BST (UK) »
Interesting Sandra, assuming Henry and Render are the same man the two birth places he does give  Ipston, Oxfordshire and Acton, conflict, so maybe he genuinely didn't know for sure where he was born. It would be great to find a baptism for him, but maybe needle in a haystack time. I'm wondering if Mark Hearne's wife Sinamenty Smith is Render's sister. Might explain why they were camped together when my photographer got her pictures, though that might be an assumption on my part there are no pictures with them actually together, and they may have been taken at different times.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London