Author Topic: Possible parents of Thomas Fouke of Codnor  (Read 2427 times)

Offline Cham

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Possible parents of Thomas Fouke of Codnor
« on: Friday 25 May 18 22:48 BST (UK) »
    I just recalled that years ago, a couple of people claimed that Thomas Fouke of Codnor was born in 1571, and that his parents were William Ffolke (sic) who married Allan, Allen, or Ellen Giorlas, Georlas, or Glorlas 1551, no location mentioned. I thought that I would start with Derbyshire since I am sure that my Thomas Fouke lived here, Thank you for your interest and aid!

Offline philipsearching

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Re: Possible parents of Thomas Fouke of Codnor
« Reply #1 on: Friday 25 May 18 23:01 BST (UK) »
There are trees on FamilySearch for Thomas Fouk in Staffordshire and London, but online trees are not necessarily reliable!
https://www.familysearch.org/search/tree/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Athomas~%20%2Bsurname%3Afouke~%20%2Bbirth_place%3Aengland%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1571-1571~&offset=20

Could you let us know what the earliest definitive evidence you have (from Parish Registers) of the Fouke family and we might be able to help track backwards.

All the best
Philip
Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

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Offline Cham

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Re: Possible parents of Thomas Fouke of Codnor
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 26 May 18 00:27 BST (UK) »
    The earliest definitive evidence that I have of my family comes from the Church of England parish registers for the marriage of Thomas Fouke of Codnor to Dorothy Cham at the Church of St. Lawrence in Heanor on October 30, 1616. A Thomas Fowke is listed as a substitute church warden for St. Lawrence in 1613, representing Codnor and Loscoe, my educated guess is that he is the same as my Thomas who married in that same church three years later. My surname is spelled in a variety of ways, Fouke, Fowke, Foulke, Folkes, etc., and we may very well be a cadet branch of the Staffordshire Fowke family. In the Fowke of Brewood family tree that I have seen, a Thomas Fowke (d. 1586) had mother Anne Bradshaw from Windley, Derbyshire, married Elizabeth Cupper, and had children, Thomas, Richard, Ann, Susan, and Elizabeth. Nothing further is known of these children, could my Thomas Fouke be a son or grandson of this Thomas Fowke of Staffordshire? Thank You for your interest and help in this, it is deeply appreciated.


Offline Cham

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Re: Possible parents of Thomas Fouke of Codnor
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 26 May 18 00:55 BST (UK) »
PS- Yes, I agree, online trees are not very reliable. The Thomas Fowke on Family Search of St. Giles, Cripplegate, London, is the Thomas Fowke (d. 1586) of Staffordshire that I am talking about. He was a merchant in London at one time, this is true, but on this entry in Family Search he has been conflated with his nephew, John Fowke, and given John's wife Dorothy Cupper with their children! However, his parents John and Anne are listed correctly here.
      I am also familiar with the Thomas Fowke (1571-1652) of Brewood, Staffordshire, who married Mary Ferrers on this Family Search site. He did have a son Thomas, but he was born too late (1614) and died a bachelor. Hope this helps separate the wheat from the chaff for you, I do appreciate your interest!

Offline philipsearching

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Re: Possible parents of Thomas Fouke of Codnor
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 26 May 18 15:29 BST (UK) »
From what you have posted you have done a huge amount of research already, so I won't give you the standard "beginners' advice"

I had a look on "British History Online" (BHO) just in case, but couldn't find anything (not surprising!).  I will carry on looking, but since many records, if they survive, (such as Guild apprenticeships, manorial rolls and parish minutes) are not online, it's a case of 'don't hold your breath waiting'.

All the best
Philip
Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Cham

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Re: Possible parents of Thomas Fouke of Codnor
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 26 May 18 16:20 BST (UK) »
     Thank you for the compliment and your offer of aid, Philip, I was just doing some more research myself, and trying to tie it all together to make it easier on you and anyone else who reads this.
     I went over the Family Search records again that you came up with for Thomas Fouke born 1571, and, just going by this criteria (assuming that he WAS born in 1571), he would be the Thomas Fowke on Page 1, born about 1570, in Enborne, Berkshire. From my own research, Thomas Fowke (c1534-March 3, 1586), London merchant-of-the-staple, born to John Fowke of Gunston in Brewood, Staffordshire, and Ann Bradshaw of Windley, Derbyshire (doesn't look that far from Codnor) married Elizabeth Cupper, daughter of Walter Cupper of Enborne, Berkshire. Going by location only, it looks as though Thomas could have met her when he was a London merchant, and that their children could have been born around there. The standard listing of them is Thomas, Richard, Ann, Susan, and Elizabeth.
     The most serious deviation from this listing of children is from the  British History Online site that you were looking on. In an article on Acton Trussell and Bednall, father Thomas (d. 1586) has returned to Staffordshire by 1575,  and purchased half of the manor of Acton Trussell and Bednall, which he leaves to his son and heir JOHN. In another British History Online article about Dunston, Thomas has also purchased the manor of Dunston in 1577, conveyed half of it, and left the other half to his eldest son and heir John, who later sells it.
     This would mean that the son Thomas was not the heir, and (my hypothesis only) could have gone to Derbyshire where his cousins would have been, and perhaps wound up as a small independent landowner or tenant (I do not know what my Thomas of Codnor's occupation was). Hope this helps your generous efforts on my behalf and for anyone who looks at this, much appreciated.

Offline Cham

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Re: Possible parents of Thomas Fouke of Codnor
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 26 May 18 16:29 BST (UK) »
PS- This may just be a coincidence, of course, but my Thomas of Codnor, besides having son Thomas, almost certainly had a daughter named Ann (named after his presumed grandmother Ann Bradshaw and/or his sister Ann)?

Offline Cham

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Re: Possible parents of Thomas Fouke of Codnor
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 27 May 18 04:08 BST (UK) »
    As I had stated in my first post, a couple of people had claimed that Thomas of Codnor was born in 1571. I have traced these claims back to the notes of Alfred Rudolf Justice of Philadelphia. I found out that there was a Philadelphia silver manufacturer by that name born on Feb. 9, 1857, and that he WAS descended from Thomas Fouke of Codnor and Dorothy Cham. So maybe he did have access to records that we don't have, or can't find now. The rather garbled claim that Thomas of Codnor was the son of William Ffolke (sic) who married Allan, Allen, or Ellen Giorlas, Georlas, or Glorlas 1551 I still have found no sources for, and I have never yet found this couple listed anywhere else.
   In Derbyshire, there was also a Fowke family of Ockbrook, but they died out in the male line without coming to Codnor. A Thomas Fowke of Horsley married Elizabeth Barrett at St. Alkmund's, Derbyshire on July 29, 1601. I had thought perhaps that this might be a first marriage for my Thomas Fouke of Codnor, since if he was born in 1571 he would have been 45 when married in 1616 to Dorothy Cham, but a list of the descendants of Thomas of Horsley reveals no migration to Codnor or a second wife.
   If Thomas of Codnor was actually born in 1571, it would fit in perfectly with him being the younger brother of John, heir of Thomas Fowke (d. 1586), for according to the British History Online article on Dunston, John was a minor when his father died, and was not conveyed the lands of Dunston, along with Acton Trussell and Bednall, until 1589. If this means that he came of age (21) in that year he would have been born in 1568, with the other sons younger, of course. Still trying to fit the pieces together.

Offline Cham

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Re: Possible parents of Thomas Fouke of Codnor
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 30 May 18 04:08 BST (UK) »
    From "Foulke Family" (1972), by Roy A. Foulke, which he got from the second part of  "The Mitchells of Kentucky" (unpublished manuscript, compiled 1924), by Gerard Fowke. This particular information was originally compiled in 1911 by Edward Simmons Lewis, of St. Louis, Missouri, a descendant of the Staffordshire Fowke family, who spent several months in England that year, copying records, official and private (Heralds Visitations, additional MSS., printed books in the British Museum, and from charts owned by various families in England), all accepted as correct by English courts.
    These records trace the Fowke ancestry through more than 300 lines, going back 5-15 generations prior to 1600, copied in the back of "Foulke Family". Is anyone familiar with this book or how to find these English sources? It's also stated that the Fowke name was represented by estates in Staffordshire, Hertfordshire, DERBYSHIRE, Dorsetshire, Gloucestershire, Shropshire, Warwickshire, and London, and that all of these pedigrees are to be found in the British Museum (can anyone access them today?).
    The first named (Staffordshire) seems to be the oldest branch; at least among those named in the previous list. This coincides with what I am thinking regarding the ancestry of Thomas Fouke of Codnor.