sarah Taylor

[staplehouse]

I have just discovered that a James and Sarah Taylor nee Edwards had a daughter called Sarah born 20 March 1840 in Sydney, she was a witness to her brother wedding in 1865 but can not find any thing else on her from then, her brother was Thomas, can you suggest where to go from here
Tom

[rosball]

Hi Tom,
   You could Search NSW Bdm for marriages and then corresponding death and check parents’ names.  https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search?7

    However with such common names it is probably easiest to find death notices and obits for the parents.   When and where did James and Sarah die?

Ros

[majm]

Sarah, born 20 March 1840, daughter of James and Sarah TAYLOR, (James a carpenter) baptism 28 June 1840 recorded in register for St Phillips C of E, Sydney by Rev William COWPER. 

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTCT-899
and
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTD1-K2D
and
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTD1-2B3

Thomas, born 5 October 1835, son of James and Sarah TAYLOR, (James a carpenter) baptised 13 December 1835, recorded in register for St Phillips C of E, Sydney by Rev. William COWPER.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTC8-W8K
and
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT6Y-JYR


I notice that family search has the baptism for Sarah indexed THREE times, and Ancestry has it twice, and NSW BDM does not have it under Sarah TAYLOR with those parents.    Three times … so it is likely there’s at least three separate parish registers … perhaps ONE is the original register, and of the other two, at least one will be St Phillips C of E, as the register receiving transmitted records from across the then territory of NSW (which in early 1840 still included all of what is New Zealand and many of the South Sea Islands, and what is now Victoria, Queensland, and the Northern Territory etc etc etc) Of course, greatest numbers of people were in and around Sydney, but all outlying districts were expected to transmit at least a summary each quarter through to Sydney … 
 
Some questions to consider:

a)   Are you sure that the witness is SISTER to the groom?  Is it possible the witness was MOTHER or AUNT or COUSIN to him … or perhaps a Mrs Sarah Taylor (ie an inlaw) or perhaps just a neighbour or friend or a parishioner who often acted as an official witness. Taylor was among the top five surnames for popularity even in that era in NSW.
b)   The Anglican Church in co-operation with Ancestry has allowed Ancestry to upload digitised images of the parish registers for the Sydney Diocese.(Sydney Anglican Parish Registers 1814-2011).   Have you found the baptism in that collection, if not, then perhaps the baptism was NOT at St Phillips, Sydney, but simply the clergyman conducting the baptism transmitted a copy of his own parish register to St Phillips in accordance with the then general orders and practices.   
c)   NSW Civil registration commenced 1 March 1856, but the practice of transmitting the records dates back at least to 1810 and a general order issued by Governor Lachlan Macquarie.   The NSW Supreme Court’s first registrar was effectively the first civil registrar for bdms, commencing his own register in about 1818 or perhaps 1817 which of course is merged in with all the other Early Church Records in the online indexes at NSW BDM.
d)   On the 1865 marriage, what was Thomas’ occupation and usual address? What info did he provide about his parents to the clergyman? (Dad’s occupation, Dad’s full names, Mum’s full names, including former and nee surnames). 
e)   Does Sarah sign or make her mark?  Many girls in Sydney from as early as the 1820s were frequently taught skills giving them literacy and numeracy, so a lass born 1840 may have been a second generation or more female with literacy if attending Wesleyan Sunday Schools in Sydney…
f)   There’s a James TAYLOR in Union Street Paddington as a carpenter in Sands Commercial Directory for Sydney in 1861.   Also similar entry in Sands 1867 and the National Directory for 1867 (J TAYLOR).   Is this likely to be your James, father of Thomas and Sarah?

Biographical Database of Australia (index free to search, nominal subs are p.a.) https://www.bda-online.org.au/ (ongoing project,  )

City of Sydney Sands free to search, good search engine http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.msg5267800#msg5267800
City of Sydney boundaries http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=499593.0
City of Sydney Assessment books (excellent as includes renters and landlords)
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/search-our-collections/house-and-building-histories/assessment-books
familysearch (free, but need to subscribe no charge)  https://www.familysearch.org/hr/search/ search by location can be handy option.

ADD
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/


JM

[majm]

I think the following would be Sarah and Thomas' parents. 


#243
James TAYLOR aged 21, born in the colony, was granted permission to marry Sarah EDWARDS, aged 26, per Kains, under a life sentence, Rev Wm Cowper, Sydney 6 August 1832.

#90
Sarah EDWARDS per Kains to Sydney 11 March 1831, she could read and write, was a protestant, and was a spinster.  Tried at Warwick assizes, 27 March 1830, for robbery, a second offence, sentenced transportation beyond the seas, life. 

Granted Conditional Pardon, 1 February 1849. 

James born in the colony ... circa 1811 ...    I wonder if he was at the Male Orphan School in 1825 when one of my NSW born ancestors was there...

JM

[staplehouse]

yes JM
that is correct and yes he would have been there when your connection where there too
thank you

[majm]

How sure are you that Sarah, witness to Tom's marriage, was Tom's sister?

JM

[staplehouse]

it just stated that Sarah Taylor as witness, it could have been his mother but in the section where it said mother it was empty, so not sure if she had already died when Thomas married in 1865
as there was five years differnet in age just thought it would be his sister but hey if that is not right  I will go with what you guys reckon
tj

[majm]

1865 marriage... blank for mother of the groom.... not unusual for blanks on the NSW BDM registration as it was only a summary.   Likely to find the full info given first hand by the bride and the groom on the original church registers... sometimes several registers needed to sort out all the elusive blanks.

Please type up all the info exact as on the 1865 marriage doc..

Blank does not suggest deceased on NSW m.c. in that era. 

JM.

[rosball]

Tom,
  Do you know when and where Thomas died?   We may be able to find a death or funeral notice or an obit which may perhaps mention or give some clues to a sister.

Ros