Author Topic: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London  (Read 1686 times)

Offline CelticMom

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 521
    • View Profile
Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« on: Wednesday 06 June 18 13:17 BST (UK) »
So I am having a slight headache with this family and wondered if some fresh eyes might help.

Catherine Fisher was born in 1871 in Bermondsey to Harry (Henry) Fisher and Harriett Ann Ellis

But this is where a headache begins, as far as I can tell Harry did not marry Harriett, but he was up to some kind of tricks.

in 1865 he marries Grace Swine in Penzance.

then in 1868 he has a daughter Mary Ann Fisher in Bermondsey but the mother is Harriett Ann Mills, not Grace Swine.

then in 1871 Harry is living with Grace and daughter Mary Ann Fisher (daughter of Harriett)

in 1871 Catherine Fisher is born in Bermondsey (to Harry and Harriett)

in 1876 Charles William Fisher is born in Camberwell, London (to Harry and Grace), he also dies in 1876

in 1877 Rose Harriet  Fisher is born in St Olave Southwark (to Harry and Grace)

in 1880 Martha Fisher is born St Olave Southwark (to Harry and Harriett)

then in 1881 Harry is living with Harriet, not sure what happens to Grace and they both go on to have the follow children:

Harry born 1882 in St Olave Southwark
James William born 1886 St Olave Southwark
George Peter born 1890 St Olave Southwark

Harry remains with Harriett in all later census, and they both end up in the workhouse homeless in the early 1900s, as does Catherine Fisher and some of her children.

She first has children with Benjamin Brett (but I can't find a marriage), when he dies she reverts back to Fisher, then she carries on having a couple more children when in the workhouse and poor and destitute, before meeting Charles Powell and marrying him.

Struggling to find the birth of Benjamin. Strangely Catherine's sister Martha marries a Daniel Brett, who I was convinced would be Benjamin's brother, but it appears he is not, as there is no Benjamin born to that family, even though Daniel and Martha's son is living with Benjamin and Catherine in 1901 as a nephew, but possible because he is Catherine's sisters son, not Benjamin's brother if that makes sense.

I haven't yet found deaths for Harry and Harriett or Grace and I can't find a birth for Harriett. From the poorhouse records she gives a date of birth of around 1842/43 but there is conflicting places of births in the census, mostly given as Surrey, but once given as Cornwall.
Anderson & Marr - Midlothian & East Lothian
Bennett - Devonport
Catleugh & Shiells - East Lothian
Cullen & Dowling - Waterford, Ireland
Littlejohns - Plymouth & London
Mansfield - Benfleet & St Pancras
Michelin - London
Newlands - Midlothian & Fife
Paterson - Canongate, Midlothian
Paulin - Northumberland
Rutherford - Roxburghshire
Taylor - East Lothian & Berwickshire
Thomson - Leith & Muthill
Thorney - Herefordshire
Small - Northumberland
Varrall - Kent

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline PaulineJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,014
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 14:19 BST (UK) »
I can't see any GRO registration for the 1871 birth.
What;s the source for these kids?
All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
======================================
We are not a search engine. We are human beings.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Online keyboard86

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,127
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 14:23 BST (UK) »
Hi the 1880 birth for Martha shows mmn Ellis, in 1881 Martha ( if correct family) was born Redruth, Cornwall
Census ref RG11/560/39/24
Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline [Ray]

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,616
  • UK Census information Crown Copyright
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 14:25 BST (UK) »

Same as KB86
St Olave
 
Harry 1880 mmn ELLIS
James Wm 1886 mmn ELLIS
George Peter 1890 mmn ELLIS

1878 marriageHarry Fisher / Frances ELLIS

 
 
"The wise man knows how little he knows, the foolish man does not". My Grandfather & Father.

"You canít give kindness away.  It keeps coming back". Mark Twain (?).

Offline [Ray]

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,616
  • UK Census information Crown Copyright
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 14:27 BST (UK) »


St Olave (Bermondsey)
Catherine 1871 D mmn ELLIS
"The wise man knows how little he knows, the foolish man does not". My Grandfather & Father.

"You canít give kindness away.  It keeps coming back". Mark Twain (?).

Offline [Ray]

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,616
  • UK Census information Crown Copyright
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 14:33 BST (UK) »

Bermondsey 1dMary Ann Fisher 1867 D mmn ELLIS
"The wise man knows how little he knows, the foolish man does not". My Grandfather & Father.

"You canít give kindness away.  It keeps coming back". Mark Twain (?).

Offline [Ray]

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,616
  • UK Census information Crown Copyright
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 14:36 BST (UK) »


1877 St Olave

Rose Harriet Fisher mmn SWINE
AND
1876 Camberwell 1dCharles Wm mmn SWINE

 :o 
"The wise man knows how little he knows, the foolish man does not". My Grandfather & Father.

"You canít give kindness away.  It keeps coming back". Mark Twain (?).

Offline CelticMom

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 521
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 14:46 BST (UK) »
Thank you, I already have all the birth records for the children.

I don't need to locate those.

They were born to the parents as mentioned in my original post.

It's trying to fathom out the switch between Grace and Harriett and find a birth for Harriett, as well as try to find a birth for Benjamin Brett.
Anderson & Marr - Midlothian & East Lothian
Bennett - Devonport
Catleugh & Shiells - East Lothian
Cullen & Dowling - Waterford, Ireland
Littlejohns - Plymouth & London
Mansfield - Benfleet & St Pancras
Michelin - London
Newlands - Midlothian & Fife
Paterson - Canongate, Midlothian
Paulin - Northumberland
Rutherford - Roxburghshire
Taylor - East Lothian & Berwickshire
Thomson - Leith & Muthill
Thorney - Herefordshire
Small - Northumberland
Varrall - Kent

Offline CelticMom

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 521
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 06 June 18 14:55 BST (UK) »
okay, so I think I have located Grace, she is alot more older than she makes out in 1861.

This is here in 1861

   Grace Swine
Age:   34
Estimated Birth Year:   1827
Relation:   Granddaughter
Gender:   Female
Where born:   St Erth, Cornwall, England
Civil Parish:   St Erth
County/Island:   Cornwall
Country:   England

living with her Grandmother Grace Mitchel

then I have her back in Cornwall in 1891 this time as Grace Fisher, notice she says she is a widow, she definitely isn't as Harry is still alive.

Name:   Grace Fisher
Gender:   Female
Age:   65
Relationship:   Head
Birth Year:   1826
Birth Place:   St Erth, Cornwall, England
Civil Parish:   Phillack
Residence Place:   Phillack, Cornwall, England

I am guessing there was some kind of cheating going on between him and Harriett, when he married Grace and after going between the two, eventually settles with Harriett (although never marries her). It's odd that his daughter Mary Ann Fisher (Harriett is her mother) is with Grace and Harry in 1871, so  by that I can only assume Grace knew about Harriett.

Odd situation.

Still can't find a likely birth for Harriett, although I do think she is more likely born in Surrey going by that is where she the majority of the time gives her place of birth.
Anderson & Marr - Midlothian & East Lothian
Bennett - Devonport
Catleugh & Shiells - East Lothian
Cullen & Dowling - Waterford, Ireland
Littlejohns - Plymouth & London
Mansfield - Benfleet & St Pancras
Michelin - London
Newlands - Midlothian & Fife
Paterson - Canongate, Midlothian
Paulin - Northumberland
Rutherford - Roxburghshire
Taylor - East Lothian & Berwickshire
Thomson - Leith & Muthill
Thorney - Herefordshire
Small - Northumberland
Varrall - Kent