Author Topic: John Mackie/McKay etc DC? Dundee.  (Read 558 times)

Offline Liviani

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John Mackie/McKay etc DC? Dundee.
« on: Sunday 17 June 18 00:38 BST (UK) »
My 4x great-grandfather is a John Mackie (and various spellings). He was born circa 1802, Inverkeilor, Angus.

He marries an Ann(e) Gibson in 1823, Carmyllie. She was born, circa 1802 in Carmyllie.

I have the following children for them;

David b.1823 -  Kirkden.
Ann(e) b.1829 - Carmyllie. (3x g-grandmother)
Margaret b. 1838 - Arbroath.
Agnes Brown b. 1842 - Carmyllie.
Euphemia b. abt 1844 - Carmyllie.

I have John Mackie and Ann(e) Gibson in the following census;

1851

Their name is spelled 'Machie' here. They are living at Dundee Road, Forfar.

John aged 48. Hand Loom Weaver
Ann aged 48. Wife.
Margaret aged 12. Daughter.
Agnes aged 9. Daughter.
Euphemia aged 6. Daughter.

1861

They are living at 10 North Kingsmuir, Forfar.

John and Ann are both still weavers.

Living with daughters Margaret and Agnes.

Also living with 2 grandchildren; Elizabeth Stewart, 2 and David Stewart < 6 months.

1871

They are living at 19 Ryehill Lane, St Peter, Dundee.

Head of the house is Thomas Stewart, 34 - Plasterer.
Thomas Stewart's wife is John and Ann's daughter, Margaret, 31.
They are living with 4 of their children including Elizabeth and David mentioned above.

John McKay and Ann Gibson and both 69 years old here.

1881

63 Perth Road, St Peter, Dundee.

John McKay, 81 - Farm Servant.

He is living with his daughter Agnes Officer. Her second husband was a John Officer.
Agnes' son William Kinnear is also living with her, the son of her first husband, James Kinnear.

So I know I have the right John McKay.



I found a DC online for Ann Gibson that someone else had uploaded. According to this she died in 1876 at West Wynd, St Peter, Dundee.

The informant is son-in-law; Thomas Stewart. Thomas has given 2 bits of wrong information on this DC. Ann Gibson's age is noted as 60 years old. We know this is incorrect for 2 reasons; there is a marriage to John Mackie in 1823 in Carmyllie. Thomas Stewart also appears to have stated that Ann Gibson was a widow of John McKay, a Linen Weaver. However, John McKay appears in the 1881 census as we can see above.

I cannot for the life of me track down John Mackie/McKay's DC. I have tried a plethora of search terms on SP and nothing is sticking out at me. I'm looking to confirm his parent's names.

There are other trees online that state his parents to be a David Mackie and Helen Blair. However, the child named John b.1804 to David Mackie and Helen Blair was baptised in Kettins. Which is quite away from Inverkeilor. In the census above he is consistent with saying he was born in Inverkeilor, except in the 1871 census when he is living with son-in-law Thomas Stewart, this time it's named as Carmyllie, probably a confusion between John and his wife Ann(e) who was born in Carmyllie.
So I'm not confident to link David Mackie and Helen Blair to my John yet. Another tree states he died in Birkenhead, England. I feel this is unlikely for a man that age to make a trip like that from Dundee to Birkenhead.

Any help with this one appreciated. I do find the McKay/Mackie name to be quite tricky to research at times.

Liv.
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

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Offline Forfarian

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Re: John Mackie/McKay etc DC? Dundee.
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 17 June 18 08:50 BST (UK) »
If every census but one says he was born in Inverkeilor, and that one says Carmyllie, which is next door to Inverkeilor, then you are almost certainly right to reject the one baptised in Kettins which, as you says, is quite a long way from Inverkeilor in early 18th century terms.

David Mackie and Helen Blair had a child baptised in Kettins in 1802, then John in 1804. So unless they moved to Inverkeilor from the other end of the county after Alexander was baptised there in September 1802, then moved to Inverkeilor, had John there then moved back to Kettins before he was baptised, then moved all the way back to Inverkeilor/Carmyllie again.

BTW FreeCEN has them in Carmyllie, at Cotton East Hills, in 1841
John McKay, 30, Ag Lab; Ann Gibson, 30; William McKay, 11; John McKay, 5; Margret McKay, 3.

Ann McKay, 10, servant at Mid Larch Hall, Carmyllie, is probably their daughter.

Could David have moved to Birkenhead to live with another of his children? If so, you are out of luck because his dc won't tell you the names of his parents. The only useful detail on it would be the name of whoever registered the death, which might confirm that it is him.

Have you looked in the English census to see if there is another John Mackie/Mackay who could be the one who died in Birkenhead?
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Offline Liviani

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Re: John Mackie/McKay etc DC? Dundee.
« Reply #2 on: Monday 18 June 18 19:31 BST (UK) »
Have you looked in the English census to see if there is another John Mackie/Mackay who could be the one who died in Birkenhead?

Couldn't find any John McKay (and various spellings) who was in the English 1881 census with a date of birth of 1803 +/- 10. Also left the date of birth blank and nothing is sticking out at me. However, I have since found the date of death for John McKay in Birkenhead which was 1875 so this can be ruled out as my John was in the 1881 census.

Thank you for the 1841 census as well. I agree that Kettins is not my John. I must be doing something wrong with the search on SP.

Tried to search immigration records and nothing is coming up after 1881 for him either. Puzzling one.

Thanks for the help.  :)
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline Liviani

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Re: John Mackie/McKay etc DC? Dundee.
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 23 June 18 22:49 BST (UK) »
Eventually found it.

I was on google and another site had a lot of info on the couple including a transcript of what was on the DC.

I searched on SP and found the same DC and purchased it. He died in 1893. John Mackie widower of Ann Gibson. 6 Thorter Row, Dundee. His daughter Euphemia Dair was the informant. I feel she had his age wrong though, as he is listed as being 83 here. Which would've made him 14 when he got married. I don't know if that was common place back in 1823 but I'm dubious of it.

Anyway, his parents were Neil Mackie and Ann Doig.

:)

EDIT: One thing that is confusing me about this DC is that when I check the child named John born to Neil Mackie and Ann Doig it comes up that he was born in Kingoldrum 26th May 1803. That's not close to Inverkeilor or Carmyllie at all. Neil and Ann have a number of other children in the area and don't seem to deviate at any point to the Inverkeilor area. They have a child called Mary in 1811 in Dunnichen. Puzzled.
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Online Wendy2305

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Re: John Mackie/McKay etc DC? Dundee.
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 24 June 18 01:08 BST (UK) »
Just a thought was John there eldest as sometimes mothers went back to their parents home for the birth of their first born. Did Ann Doig's parents live at Kingoldrum

Offline Liviani

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Re: John Mackie/McKay etc DC? Dundee.
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 24 June 18 01:21 BST (UK) »
Just a thought was John there eldest as sometimes mothers went back to their parents home for the birth of their first born. Did Ann Doig's parents live at Kingoldrum

That's a good point. I didn't know that, will come in handy in the future.

Sadly, I can't seem to find out who Ann Doig's parents were. Nothing coming up in the index on SP for her death so I suspect it's likely she died pre-1855. There are to many Ann Doig's coming up for me to pinpoint her. Also not finding anything in 1841, but not sure if she was still alive then.
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Online Wendy2305

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Re: John Mackie/McKay etc DC? Dundee.
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 24 June 18 01:27 BST (UK) »
have you heard of Ken Doigs website http://www.doig.net/Genealogy.html
All submitted family trees but most seem to be well researched you may find Ann in there

Offline Rosinish

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Re: John Mackie/McKay etc DC? Dundee.
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 24 June 18 01:29 BST (UK) »
I wouldn't be too concerned of the age on a DC being wrong.
I'm sure most, if not all of us on RC have had the same which would include ages on marriages being out where those details were given by people themselves rather than a 3rd party.

Ages were not so important to people as most were illiterate back then just as the spelling of names varied.

Annie
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Offline Liviani

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Re: John Mackie/McKay etc DC? Dundee.
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 24 June 18 01:37 BST (UK) »
have you heard of Ken Doigs website http://www.doig.net/Genealogy.html
All submitted family trees but most seem to be well researched you may find Ann in there

I hadn't seen this before. Many thanks for this. Will save and peruse the site. Fantastic resource.


I wouldn't be too concerned of the age on a DC being wrong.
I'm sure most, if not all of us on RC have had the same which would include ages on marriages being out where those details were given by people themselves rather than a 3rd party.

Ages were not so important to people as most were illiterate back then just as the spelling of names varied.

Annie

That is very true Annie. The informant, his daughter had to sign with "her mark" so she was illiterate.

Thank you.

liv.
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie