Isabella Anderson of Gamrie. A very complicated lady!

[Forfarian]

Have you considered a re-marriage?
I have no idea of distances between places in Banffshire but...
ANDERSON ISABELLA
DUNCAN GEORGE
1874
159/ 3   
Keith

From LIBINDX, Isabella Anderson, wife of George Duncan, was buried in Keith in 1904, aged 58. Therefore she was born 1845/1846. Therefore she is not your Isabella remarried.

[Forfarian]

If Robert Anderson was the brother of Francis Anderson, and Francis Anderson's mother was Christian Bruce, it seems odd that neither of Robert's daughters was named Christian?

If Francis was a pauper, there would have been extensive information about him in the records of Gamrie Parochial Board, which would include details about his wife and any dependant children. The surviving Poor Relief records for Gamrie are in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire Archives https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/libraries-and-archives/aberdeen-city-and-aberdeenshire-archives/catalogues-and-indexes/poor-relief-records

Some photographs of the Tore of Troup at http://www.geograph.org.uk/geotrips/173.

All the farms/crofts mentioned in this thread have vanished, apart from the foundations of Glens of Troup, which can be seen if you go to http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.6459&lon=-2.2855&layers=5&b=1 and slide the blue button in the box on the left to left and right to compare the old map with the aerial view. You might want to zoom in a bit.

[MonicaL]

Age a little out but have you considered this entry for Isabella in 1881:

Isabella Anderson 48  Domestic Servant Unemployed, b. Gamrie
Address: 26 Clergy St, Gamrie

Original would show her maritial status

Monica

[Liviani]

I noticed on the 1861 census, Patrick (b 1855) was shown as Patrick S

Do you know what the 'S' relates to?

I see he died the following year 

Annie

Unfortunately not, his birth record just states 'Patrick Anderson'. His death is just indexed as 'Patrick Anderson' also. It could possibly be 'Shepherd' as Isabella's great-grandmother was an Elizabeth Shepherd. Her great-grandfather was William Mair.

Age a little out but have you considered this entry for Isabella in 1881:

Isabella Anderson 48  Domestic Servant Unemployed, b. Gamrie
Address: 26 Clergy St, Gamrie

Original would show her maritial status

Monica

Hi Monica, many thanks for finding this.

I checked the free (LDS) text on SP. It states her condition as "U" which I presume to be unmarried? Would the actual copy show anything different?

I suspect this Isabella Anderson may in fact be my Isabella's half-sister. Francis Anderson and his first wife Isobel Massie had a daughter named Isabella about 1832 in Gamrie. There are far too many Isabella/Isobel Andersons in this family. 


Re: the other points in the thread from others, many thanks, I have a lot to look at today, will get back with more info later today if I find it.

Liv.

[Liviani]

If Robert Anderson was the brother of Francis Anderson, and Francis Anderson's mother was Christian Bruce, it seems odd that neither of Robert's daughters was named Christian?

That is a good point Forfarian. Didn't think of that one.

If Francis was a pauper, there would have been extensive information about him in the records of Gamrie Parochial Board, which would include details about his wife and any dependant children. The surviving Poor Relief records for Gamrie are in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire Archives https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/libraries-and-archives/aberdeen-city-and-aberdeenshire-archives/catalogues-and-indexes/poor-relief-records

Thank you for this information. How would I go about accessing these records, would this be able to be done remotely via email? Or in person, which I could do at some point. If you know of course.

Re - photographs. Very interesting, many thanks. It's a pity that none of these farms are around today, but such is life. I can see the foundations of Glens of Troup from the satellite/aerial images on the maps. I can see it's the same shapes as the images from NLS maps.

Today, I have been researching Isabella's daughter: Mary Frances Anderson, born Feb 1863, Banff, Banffshire. As far as I am aware, she is the only legitimate daughter of Isabella Anderson and Francis Anderson. Mary Frances is the second youngest child (that I know about) of Isabella. Isabella goes on to have a further illegitimate child in 1866, named Isabella. This is after her husband, Francis dies in 1863.

I have some confusion regarding Mary Frances, her possible husband and where she is in latter censuses. I was hoping my research on her would shed some clues as to her mother, Isabella's whereabouts post 1871 but just ended up with more questions as a result.

In 1871 she is living with her mother and sister (Isabella) at 19 Carmelite St, Banff. Aged 8.

I believe this is her in 1881; Mary Anderson, Servant, Aged 18, 16 High Street, Banff. The head of the house is a John Ord, aged 61, born Paisley, Renfrew, Basket Maker. His son is also here a Robertson Ord, aged 13, born Macduff.

In 1891, I believe her to be the Mary Anderson, aged 27, living at 37 Boyndie Street, Banff. She is a Hawker. There are a number of children of her listed and they are as follows;

John Ord b.1882 Banff
Alexander Ord b.1884 Banff
Jessie Ord b.1886 Banff
Martha Ord b.1888 Banff
Andrew R. Ord b.1890 Banff

(approximate dates, and these are all listed as her daughters and sons).

So I make the connection with the John Ord living with Mary Anderson in 1881 and try to find him in 1891.

I find him, still a basket maker and he is also living at 37 Boyndie Street, Banff? Though it's listed as a separate entry on An****y. He is listed with a wife here, a Mary Ord aged 27, a Hawker like Mary Anderson above and born Banff. I suspect them to be the same person and there has been an error somewhere. Which given this site, is not surprising.

So I check on SP for a marriage between a John Ord and a Mary in Banff, and only one record appears in the index.

One pops up and it's between John Ord and Mary McAllister 1875 Banff. 

I go on to check deaths for a Mary Anderson or Ord. Three come up and only one fits the approx age of my Mary. Mary Ord, 67, dies 1929 Monkton and Prestwick. I purchase the image and this isn't her. It states she was the widow of a Samuel Ord, no parents details are listed, just the father as ---- Anderson. So I am none the wiser.

I find Mary Anderson in 1901 on SP.
This time she is at 14 Boyndie Street, Banff. Aged 38 and is still a Hawker. She is living with her following children:

John, 19, labourer general
Alex, 17, apprentice tailor
Jessie, 15, ----
Martha, 13, scholar
Andrew, 12 scholar

So this is the same family in 1891. Just very confused as to the Mary McAllister/Mary Anderson question.

[Liviani]

Got an update regarding Isabella here.

A relative of mine who is researching the same line has found some exciting information out quite by accident.

In 1881, the Isabella in question is living at 52 Upper Denburn, Old Machar, Aberdeen.

There are quite a few discrepancies in the census but I am still confident it is her. I will explain here.

She is listed as ANNABELLA ANDERSON, 64, born Gamrie. The head of the household appears to be Annabella/Isabella's daughter rather than granddaughter. I believe this to be the case because in 1851, my Isabella is living at Snubs, Gamrie, Banffshire. The head of the household is her step-father; Francis Jamison (her father died and her mother re-married). An Isobel Anderson is here aged 25 born Gamrie. There are 2 young children here named Eliza Anderson 4, born Gamrie and George Anderson, 1, born Gamrie. These young children are enumerated as gdau and gson in law. There is nothing in the OPRs re these children that I could find so I suspect they weren't baptised. They would've been illegitimate I suspect.

So, this is why I think Eliza is actually Isabella's daughter rather than grand-daughter. Annabella/Isabella is really approx 54 rather than the 64 listed. There is also an Isabella Anderson in this household aged 14. I believe my Isabella had another illegitimate child born in 1866 named Isabella. So this isn't Eliza's daughter in reality. Lots of cover ups going on here. She had a lot of illegitimate children and appears much lying in the census.

As for post 1881, I am struggling to find anything on any of these people in the household in 1881. There is another Sophia Anderson born a year prior to the one named here. I suspect the one in 1891 is not the one named here and the one born prior and not connected.

[Rosinish]

That's a step forward Liviani & does fit with your previous post;

"1851

Snubs, Gamrie.

Isabella is the daughter in law of the head here (though it is actually her step-father). A Francis Jamieson, 50, Farmer of 5 acres.
This is a large household and Isabella's grandmother Elizabeth Farrier nee Mair is here aged 73.
Isabella's occupation is down as not known.
There are 2 young children in this household. An Eliza Anderson aged 4 and a George Anderson aged 1. Wouldn't be surprised if these were 2 children by Isabella here."

You don't give Isabella's age on the 1851 but she seems too young to be the g/mother of Eliza & George.

Are you able to find Eliza or George after 1881, marriages/deaths with parentage?

Annie

[Liviani]

That's a step forward Liviani & does fit with your previous post;

"1851

Snubs, Gamrie.

Isabella is the daughter in law of the head here (though it is actually her step-father). A Francis Jamieson, 50, Farmer of 5 acres.
This is a large household and Isabella's grandmother Elizabeth Farrier nee Mair is here aged 73.
Isabella's occupation is down as not known.
There are 2 young children in this household. An Eliza Anderson aged 4 and a George Anderson aged 1. Wouldn't be surprised if these were 2 children by Isabella here."

You don't give Isabella's age on the 1851 but she seems too young to be the g/mother of Eliza & George.

Are you able to find Eliza or George after 1881, marriages/deaths with parentage?

Annie

Re 1851 at Snubs, Gamrie.

Isobel (as she is spelled here) is 25 years of age in 1851. I believe she is with her brother at the time Francis aged 21. She does have a brother, Francis born Jan 1830 to Robert Anderson and Elizabeth Ferrier.

Will get back to you on her children Eliza and George. Not come up with much so far but still in the midst of the search.

Thanks. 

[Liviani]

I had completely forgotten about this post. I think I got a bit scunnered and confused with Isabella Anderson for a while and left it. A while ago I went back with a fresh head and found some more info.

Isabella's daughter Eliza Anderson marries a widower named William Douglas in the parish of Durris, Kincardineshire in May 1884 .

Eliza's parents are named as Francis Anderson, a farmer (deceased) and Isabella Anderson m.s. Anderson. Her mother is not marked as deceased so she is still alive in 1884. Witnesses are Samuel Farquhar and Isabel Anderson. The Isabel Anderson is probably Eliza's sister, as her mother was illiterate and always signed with her mark and this Isabel had a signature.

Eliza had two children that I know about;

• Maggie Elder Anderson (1874 - 1943) born King Edward, ABD, died Drumlithie, Glenbervie. On Maggie's DC her father is named as a George Davie, a grain merchant.
• Sophia Robertson Anderson (1877 - 1929) born Upper Leadside, Aberdeen, died Barclay Street, Stonehaven.

In 1911 Eliza is widowed aged 64 and living at Bruce Court, Stonehaven. Also in the household are;

John Robbie, 16, grandson, Grocer's Messenger born Aberdeen
William D. Anderson, 6, grandson, Scholar, born Aberdeen
Agnes F. Anderson, 8, granddaughter, Scholar, born Aberdeen
George Shives(?) Anderson, 7, grandson, Scholar, born Aberdeen

I have still be unable to find Isabella Anderson's death (the mother of Eliza & many more). I know it will have been in 1884 or after. I suspect she died prior to the 1891 census.

Have not been able to find Eliza or Sophia in 1891. There was another Sophia Anderson born Aberdeen around the same time which doesn't help.

I haven't had any luck with Eliza's brother George.

Apparently Banffshire had very high rates of endogamy and illegitimacy, mostly in connection with the fisher community, but also in regards to the agricultural inland populations. Andrew Blaikie wrote about these communities and their social and moral values.