Llannerchymedd

[AnotherWhiteRabbit]

I can’t find out how he fits into the family so I would like his mother and father’s name and definite  place of birth. Anything else you know would help.

[thomasfamilyhistory]

As stated John/Owen didn't fit into the family unless his mother Ann (he was illegitimate) was related to Robert and Anne Thomas which appears likely. If either of them had a sister or niece named Ann it could explain the discrepancies. Apart from tracing anyone living in the area in 1871 who originated from Aberystwyth everything I know is in my original email. According to uncle Will he knew who Owen's father was but Owen never knew, so he must have been around for some time. A census check may throw some light on it.

I'm not certain that John's name was changed immediately to Owen or whether the 1872 Owen's arrival led to the change. I'm currently trying to trace John/Owen's postwar credits to see if that throws any light on the subject.

I did visit Amwych in the late 1950's and from memory I think there was a connection to a family called Starkey. Unfortunately, the only thing I remember is that one of the family committed suicide by jumping into the bay/harbour soon afterwards. I seem to remember reference to the Hughes family who ran a riding school at Rhosneiger as being distant relatives.

[AnotherWhiteRabbit]

Thank you very much, I will look at all my notes tomorrow and see how that all fits in. I have found some intriguing stuff. The family rumour is that Owen was fathered by a member of the artistocracy! I’m still working on that thread. You have helped me for which I am grateful and if I can help you please let me know.

Incidentally, I had heard about the riding school. I was told my great grandmother ran it but she came from the Isle of Man, not Anglesey.

[thomasfamilyhistory]

Personally I think the aristocracy angle was a way of covering up the shame of having an illegitimate birth in the family. I think the Aberystwyth path is the better way to discover the truth.

[thomasfamilyhistory]

Owen and Thirza were married at Church Church, Kensington in 1896. I've got the exact date somewhere and will try to dig it out.

[AnotherWhiteRabbit]

Yes I have that info, I have the marriage certificate and when I saw his father’s name entered as Dransfield Thomas I suspected something was wrong. How did you find out that his Mum was Ann?

[dragonT]

I have found details from the birth registrations of some of the children you mention, all registered with father Robert Thomas, mother Ann Jones and born at Llanerchymedd:

Ann - 30 Apr 1846; …..

I think it is very probable that Ann, eldest child of Robert Thomas and Ann Jones, is the mother of John Thomas - who was later renamed Owen.

Ann's baptism took place on 2 May 1846 (Llannerchymedd PR p43, 337), the address mentioned being Tai Club Mawr, Llannerchymedd, parish of Amlwch. In 1851 she is living in Wellington St. Amlwch with her mother's father Owen Jones and his wife Ann. In 1861 she may be a servant age 15 in Water St. Amlwch. I haven't found her in 1871.

thomasfamilyhistory mentioned that John/Owen's birth registration had the address Tai Club Mawr and the date, 21 Nov 1871, was almost identical to that in the 1939 register for Owen Thomas in St Helens (12 Nov 1871).

Robert Thomas and his wife had a son Owen b. 12 Oct 1864 who died 12 Jul 1865. It looks as if they became responsible for raising Ann's son John and chose to rename him Owen after their own son. (Calling Owen their nephew in 1881 was presumably meant to hide his illegitimacy).

I'll see if I can find what became of Ann after John/Owen's birth.

[AnotherWhiteRabbit]

Very interesting as my research doesn't throw up a daughter called Ann at all. From the census of 1851 I have Robert and Ann(e)s children as:

William 1849
John 1854
Robert 1858
Mary 1851
Ellen 1862
Catherine 1868

This makes me think Ann was brought up, as you say, by Robert's brother Owen. Robert brought up her illegitimate son too, renaming him. I have no record though of Owen being called John. I'm even wondering if Ann was illegitimate, apparently in Wales children like that were passed around families to obfuscate matters.

What you have written makes complete sense regarding family set up and Owen's illegitimacy.

He travels to Liverpool when he's about 19 and marries Thirza there. On he is marriage certificate his father is written as Dransfield Thomas. Dransfield Buckley was married to Robert's daughter Catherine and effectively lends Owen his name to put on the certificate.

However, Dransfield Buckley is the real character in this, a really bad egg!   

[dragonT]

Very interesting as my research doesn't throw up a daughter called Ann at all.
This makes me think Ann was brought up, as you say, by Robert's brother Owen..... I'm even wondering if Ann was illegitimate...

Just to clarify, Ann's birth registration has her born 30 Apr 1846, the daughter of Robert Thomas and Ann (maiden name) Jones - there is no indication that she was illegitimate. As mentioned previously, Robert Thomas and Ann Jones married on 14 Jul 1845 at Llechcynfarwy Church. Ann's father was named as Owen Jones, labourer.
In the 1851 census Ann Thomas is not living with her parents Robert and Ann and their two younger children, William and Mary, but with her grandfather Owen Jones, her mother's father. Given Mary's age at the time - 3 weeks - they were probably looking after her temporarily. Both families are in Wellington St. Llannerchymedd.