Brick wall.. Looking for Birth/Parents of Neil MCARTHER or Argyll

[grimnar]

Hi all,
         As it says in the heading, I've hit a fairly sizable brick wall concerning my 5th great grandfather and his family. What I am looking for are his birthdate, birthplace and parents.
Why it's been so difficult finding this fellows family before 1851 as that all the census records have different information.

According to the 1851 census: Neil MCARTHER was born around 1819 in Rossmall(this location doesn't seem to exist. Ross of Mull maybe), Argyll. He is living at 45 King St, Glasgow With his wife Marion MCARTHUR nee WATSON(1824-1886) and Archibald, their son.

On the 1861 Census: Neil is estimated to have been born in 1823 in Glasgow. He is living at 45 King St, Glasgow with his wife Marion and children Archibald(1849), Marion(1857), Mary(1852), John(1854) and Helen(1859).

In the 1871 Census: Neil is estimated to have been again born in 1823, this time at Mall(or Mull), Argyll. He is still living at 45 King St, Glasgow with wife Marion, and children; Archibald, Mary, John, Helen(Ellen), Flora(1861) and Jane(1867).

On the 1881 Census: Neil is now stating he was born in 1817 at Kilpatrick G?, Argyll. He is living at 45 King Street, Glasgow with wife Marion and daughter Helen.
I believe in Feb 1886, Neil and Marion emigrated to Australia, where son John MCARTHUR and his family now lived. Neil died in April 1886, in Melbourne, Victoria and Marion died 4 months later in the same year.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated in trying to work out this little mystery.

[ColC]

Luckily there were only 8 Neil McArthurs on Scotlands People born in the country from 1817 to 1822, you could try to eliminate them, my favourite is the one baptised  Kilninian and Kilmore, Argyll,  13/09/1818, parents  ARCHIBALD MCARTHUR & CATHARINE MCLEAN, given that I think you mentioned that Archibald was Neils eldest son?

www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Colin

[ev]

I believe in Feb 1886, Neil and Marion emigrated to Australia, where son John MCARTHUR and his family now lived. Neil died in April 1886, in Melbourne, Victoria and Marion died 4 months later in the same year.

Have you looked at possible Australian death certs. to see if they name parents ?


ev

Added -
Not sure about Neil but there is a death for a Marion McArthur , 1886 , parents Jno Watson and Marion(McCorkendale) on the Victoria deaths index.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj

[dowdstree]

Ages on census records are notoriously inaccurate.

There is a tree on Ancestry (well researched) which gives Marion's maiden name as Watson with parents John Watson and Marion McCockendale (possible wrong spelling) The same parents as the Australian death record found by ev for Marion. They have no parents listed for Neil.

Following Scottish naming patterns - the children of Neil and Marion - 2nd son - John Watson and 2nd daughter Marion after Marion's parents.

Now back to the 1st son Archibald and 1st daughter Mary. There is another birth on Scotlands People which could be Neil's - 30/6/1816 - Kilfinichen & Kilvickeon - parents Archibald McArthur & Mary McLean. Just another possibility to consider.

Like the one suggested by ColC both records refer to the Island of Mull.


Dorrie

[grimnar]

Thank you all for the replies. You have been most helpfull.

EV, I have looked extensively on the Vic BMD index but cannot find a death certificate, yet Neil is recorded on his wife, Marion and son John's headstone in St Kilda Cemetery(Melbourne, Australia), as being buried with them. I have emailed the cemetery requestion details regarding his interment if, in fact, he was buried with the others.

Colin and Dorrie, Thanks to you both. I never knew about the naming convention and now looking at each of my Scottish families, it's becoming very apparent. Archibald does seem to be the father. The area of birth also does seem to match in with the census details. The parish of Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon falls at the end of what is called the 'Ross of Mull' area of the island. About 2 miles west of the town of Bunessen(one of the areas major towns) was a village called 'Kilpatrick'(now only a cemetery). Both Ross of Mull and Kilpatrick are locations mentioned as Neil MCARTHUR's birth location.

Thanks again to everyone who commented.

[MonicaL]

This is the site to look at for Mull genealogy www.mullgenealogy.co.uk  Have you had a look through it?

For example, the Neil that Dorrie mentioned shows there as baptised on 30 June 1816, Kilpatrick, Kilfinichen, Isle of Mull

Monica

[wivenhoe]

"..I believe in Feb 1886, Neil and Marion emigrated to Australia,"

What causes you to believe this....what source?

"...yet Neil is recorded on his wife, Marion and son John's headstone in St Kilda Cemetery(Melbourne, Australia), as being buried with them."

Can you please transcribe exactly the inscription on the headstone. Names on a headstone identify the burials in that plot, and also memorialise people who have died and are buried somewhere else.

An image of this headstone would be even better, to see the presentation of the inscription.

Can you list all the information on the death certificate for Marion, died 1886.

[grimnar]

Hi Monica,
               Thank you for your reply. Yes, I have had a bit of a look on that website, but did not find much pertaining to my query. I will go back and have another look in more depth. I think that the Neil you mention is the one I am researching. Thank you.

Wivenhoe,
                Thank you for your reply also. As to your request, I will include the transcript(Victoria, Australia, Cemetery Records and Headstone Transcriptions, 1844-1997) where the information is coming from. Unfortunately, I do not live near the cemetery in question so do not have a photograph of the monument. I have emailed the cemetery trust and am waiting for their reply regarding further details on who is interred, owner of plot etc.

The details of Marion McArthur's death certificate are as follow:
Death: 7 Aug 1886, 115a Chapel St. Prahran, Melbourne
Name: Marion McArthur
Sex & Age: Female, 59 Years
Cause: Apoplexy, 12 hours
Parents: John Watson, Shoemaker. Marion Watson formerly McCorkendale
Informant: Henry Drayton, Undertaker-High St. Prahran
Burial Reg: 9th August 1886, St Kilda Cemetery
Where Born and how long in Aust: Glasgow, Scotland. 5 months in Victoria.
Married(where, age, too whom): Glasgow Scotland, 18, Neil McArthur
Issue(dead or age): Marion(dead), Archibald(dead), Mary(33years), John(31 Years), Neil(dead), Ellen(27years), Flora(25years), William(dead), Jane(dead).

I hope this information is sufficient for you.

Regards

[wivenhoe]

The people are all described as relatives of Mary DICKSON, died 1912.
I suspect it will be something like -

Marion McARTHUR was buried, 1886....no headstone.
John McARTHUR was buried, 1905....no headstone.
Mary DICKSON was buried, 1912...

….at which time a headstone was placed, and, informed by a family member (David FALCONER?), the headstone named Marion, John and Mary as buried in the plot.....and memoralised father Neil McARTHUR who died 1886...….somewhere?

The cemetery will identify for you the burials in this plot.

BDM VIC death
1886 / 10508  MCARTHUR Marion  parents WATSON Jno / Marion (McCORKENDALE)
died PRN age 59

1905 / 6322 MCARTHUR  Jno Watson  parents  UKN / UKN
died Melb E age 50

1912 / 6375 DICKSON Mary parents McARTHUR Neil / UKN
died MVERN age 58

The Age 19 Apr 1912 p1
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/197373802?
DICKSON - On the 17 April at Malvern, Mary, the dearly beloved mother of David Falconer, of Edith St Caulfield, aged 58 years

There is a probate file for Mary DICKSON, which has good information....formerly FALCONER. This document was written in 1895, and husband John DICKSON was then living in Glasgow......