Burials in Roecliffe area

[BenRalph]

I've got a big bunch of relatives who died in the Roecliffe and Bondgate areas near Ripon. Their deaths are all in the BTs of the Cathedral but none are buried in the ground of it. Does anyone have any ideas of where they'd have been buried? They date from 1700s to about 1850.

[iluleah]

BTs are Bishops Transcripts of church parish (baptism, marriage) burial records not deaths registrations.
Death registration didn't start until 1837 and are civil records not church records. 'Some' burial records the vicar wrote a death date next to the burial but that is not normal practice.

[BenRalph]

On Find My Past if you search, for example, Mark Kirby b1825 d1826 in Ripon, there's a death down as being at the Ripon Cathedral. I assumed they were BTs, sorry. But, back to my problem, Mark Kirby wasnt/isn't buried at the Cathedral but is in their 'books'.

[iluleah]

Websites confuse the issue as much of what they have are harvested/collected data, unchecked, unproved and pass them off as 'records' which they are not. The ONLY records you can trust online on ANY website is an image of the actual record, ALL others are just a clue where to look....

So for example if FindMyPast have the national burial index then they are just harvested information passed off as a record(http://www.ffhs.org.uk/burials/nbi-overview.php)

So based on the information from FindMyPast which is a 'clue' it will depend on what other 'records' or information you have if you can cross reference or not as you can only really cross reference real parish records ( images of those records)
1700-1850 can be a difficult time to research simply proving connecting records is difficult and it can be tempting to just copy and paste from websites whatever they 'throw up' as 'matches' but all they are doing is chasing names. dates, place and there is always more than one person of the same name, about the same date living in the same area and websites do not have all the records ( or information) they only have a tiny percentage, so that is  great disadvantage and if you haven't done any ( or very much) research offline pre 1850 is a difficult starting point to learn

 

Mark Kirby wasnt/isn't buried at the Cathedral but is in their 'books'.

So start by looking at what 'their books' are, that way you can soon check to see how relevant that information is.. is it an image of a real record or just an index, transcription etc.
Then look to see the last person you have you can prove meaning you have all the real records that person generated during their lifetime, so eg someone born in 1850 will have a birth cert ( civil) likely a baptism record ( church, so PR, BT and if still existing day book) 1851 census, you have three records to cross reference, where as someone born in 1820 you are looking for a baptism record which may or may not give parents names, a church marriage record and could have been married before the 1841 census, so you could have no parents listed on any of them even if the father is listed on bap/marr it could be a lie........ my great grandfather married twice 1st in 1884 2nd in 1922 he lied about who his father was both times ( and he knew who he was)

You likely know all that, so sorry for repeating if you do although I know we all have tunnel vision at times with 'our own' ancestry so it is always worth fresh eyes.
If you 'know/can prove' Ripon then start there and go to Genuki check out the Ripon page, eg what churches there are, when were they opened that way you can narrow down ones relevant to your ancestors dates, then look at churches nearby

[Pennines]

Possibly Ripon Cathedral was regarded as the 'Mother Church' for that area. In the town where I live events were recorded in our 'Mother Church', but took place in surrounding churches.

Have you found actual Parish Registers for that area as well as BTs?

Also --- how do you know your ancestor wasn't actually buried at the Cathedral please? Have you examined the grave registers?

 Unfortunately grave registers are hard to find - but where they have survived they record everyone buried in a grave, even where there isn't a headstone.

[iluleah]

Without knowing what you have looked at on FindMyPast it is difficult to say eg old IGI was harvested/collected and anyone could send in anything and they did as it is part of the LDS faith to 'collect' and donate and lots sent in complete nonsense just to make up the numbers to 200 which they needed before they sent them. I have found the same person on the IGI baptised in three different parishes, clearly that is wrong, the old IGI is now called CD collection and being used online by people to research.

Genuki tells me
Deposited Registers (North Yorkshire County Record Office)     Baptisms: 1574-1900     Marriages: 1574-1877     Burials: 1574-1881 
and BT (none known)

I have little research in Yorkshire however for the people I do have then yes I have copies of the parish records after using online indexes/transcriptions on trusted websites to find the clues, then searched for scanned PRs and/or contacted the records office/local FHS/rootschat members to get a copy of the real record........ and do not move on until I have proved that person...as one wrong person means you are no longer researching 'your' ancestors

[BenRalph]

Thanks for the advice iluleah. I've done quite a lot of research on this specific family and I'm near certain they're all the correct people.

I've also seen the pages of what's been transcribed in FindMyPast and the documents say the person was buried at Ripon but according to the lists at the  Cathedral itself nobody with the surname Kirby (or anything similar) was buried there. The lady at the church said it's more likely to be around the Roecliffe or Bondgate area.

[BenRalph]

Also --- how do you know your ancestor wasn't actually buried at the Cathedral please? Have you examined the grave registers?

I'm lucky that my partner's aunt lives in Boroughbridge and we go quite often so I've managed to ask a lot of questions with the people who work at the Cathedral and look at the index of the burial surnames and nobody who is on FindMyPast as being buried there (and there's a lot) are actually in the indexes and the lady who I evoke to said it'd be likely they're not buried there as the people buried in the cathedral were more well-to-do and my family were far from that.

[Pennines]

Actually if you look at the first pages of the book shown on Find My Past, which contains the burial of Mark Kirby (in the Yorkshire burials dataset) -- it simply says 'The Parish of Ripon' -- it doesn't say a particular Church name (the Cathedral was a church I think at the time of Mark's burial - not that it makes any difference).

There is also a note saying the first 10 burials are copied from the old register - the book starts in 1826. Might be useful to see the 'old register'.

Maybe whichever North Yorkshire Archives hold the Registers could help you more with this query - as to whether the parish register is a collection from the surrounding places as well as that particular church (and also see if the 'old register' is there!) I believe it became a Cathedral later.

I must confess I don't know which Archive covers Ripon --- maybe York? There is also an Archive at Northallerton, but I'm really not sure if there are others for that area.