Author Topic: Smith Murray and Sinclair confusion  (Read 5641 times)

Offline Craigellachie2019

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith Murray and Sinclair confusion
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 19 July 18 03:32 BST (UK) »
Apologies to all - I have had Rootschat open all morning and had no replies.  I tried another search and Rootschat said it was having problems, so I closed and reopened and all your replies are there so I will try to answer one by one.  In the meantime, I have - thru Scotlandspeople - the children of Ann and George and the children of Margaret and George.  I cannot find Margaret's death.  I do have Ann's death from Scotlandspeople which only shows she is the widow of George Smith and parents Alexander Sinclair and Isabella Robertson.  I have George's death in 1858 where it states he was 'married' and parents were William Smith and Ann Smith - maiden name Smith.  I have found two 1841 census.  One showing George aged 50 b Banff, Ann 45 born Banff, George 15, Isabell 15, Margaret 12, William 10.  I have found another 1841 census showing Margaret 45 b Banff, John 15, Helen 15, Anna 12, Elspet 9, James 20, George 15.  I have found 1861 census showing a Margaret Smith, 73 pauper - 1871 census Margaret aged 79 pauper.  No idea if this is the Margaret in question.  Have not found any 1851 or 1861 census of any help - presumably because all children have either died or married or taken jobs elsewhere.
Scotland: Stewart, Smith, Edward, Barron, Macdonald, Sinclair, Millar/Miller, Ross, Salmon(d), Cuthel, Cuthill, Macalister, McAlaster, McAllister, Forsyth, Haddow, Todd, Aitken, Gartshore, Mackie, Strang
England: Lucas, Parkinson, Nicholls
Ireland: Keys, McAuliffe, Achilles, Fenner/Fannin, Halpin
Germany: Achilles, Bartels, Barthold, Pralow, Schreiber, Kloth, Cords

Offline Craigellachie2019

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith Murray and Sinclair confusion
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 19 July 18 03:39 BST (UK) »
Gadget - the births I found are as follows:
George & Margaret -
Margaret Fling b 1810 - 1887
Alexander b 1811
John Fling Smith b 1825
Elspet Smith b 1830

George & Ann
William b 1812-1856
Ann b 1815
Margaret b 1817
Alexander b 1820
George b 1822
Isabella b 1825 (my 2nd gr grandmother)
James b 1827
Margaret b 1829
William b 1831
John b 1834
Joseph b 1837
Scotland: Stewart, Smith, Edward, Barron, Macdonald, Sinclair, Millar/Miller, Ross, Salmon(d), Cuthel, Cuthill, Macalister, McAlaster, McAllister, Forsyth, Haddow, Todd, Aitken, Gartshore, Mackie, Strang
England: Lucas, Parkinson, Nicholls
Ireland: Keys, McAuliffe, Achilles, Fenner/Fannin, Halpin
Germany: Achilles, Bartels, Barthold, Pralow, Schreiber, Kloth, Cords

Offline Craigellachie2019

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith Murray and Sinclair confusion
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 19 July 18 03:57 BST (UK) »
Wendy 3405 - yes the 1841 census is what I found and they are the children I have from SP as well.
Scotland: Stewart, Smith, Edward, Barron, Macdonald, Sinclair, Millar/Miller, Ross, Salmon(d), Cuthel, Cuthill, Macalister, McAlaster, McAllister, Forsyth, Haddow, Todd, Aitken, Gartshore, Mackie, Strang
England: Lucas, Parkinson, Nicholls
Ireland: Keys, McAuliffe, Achilles, Fenner/Fannin, Halpin
Germany: Achilles, Bartels, Barthold, Pralow, Schreiber, Kloth, Cords

Offline Craigellachie2019

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith Murray and Sinclair confusion
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 19 July 18 04:00 BST (UK) »
Rosinish - yes - I have George's death cert and have searched George and Ann's children and George and Margaret's children through Scotlandspeople - but my problem is there has to be two George's to have these families and I don't know both George's parents.  Obviously I have the one from the death cert - but it only says he was 'married' so don't know if that George was Margaret's husband or Ann's.  That is my problem.
Scotland: Stewart, Smith, Edward, Barron, Macdonald, Sinclair, Millar/Miller, Ross, Salmon(d), Cuthel, Cuthill, Macalister, McAlaster, McAllister, Forsyth, Haddow, Todd, Aitken, Gartshore, Mackie, Strang
England: Lucas, Parkinson, Nicholls
Ireland: Keys, McAuliffe, Achilles, Fenner/Fannin, Halpin
Germany: Achilles, Bartels, Barthold, Pralow, Schreiber, Kloth, Cords


Offline Craigellachie2019

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith Murray and Sinclair confusion
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 19 July 18 04:02 BST (UK) »
Wendy and Rosinish - yes I found that 1851 census too and no Ann.  Maybe she was off visiting someone.
Scotland: Stewart, Smith, Edward, Barron, Macdonald, Sinclair, Millar/Miller, Ross, Salmon(d), Cuthel, Cuthill, Macalister, McAlaster, McAllister, Forsyth, Haddow, Todd, Aitken, Gartshore, Mackie, Strang
England: Lucas, Parkinson, Nicholls
Ireland: Keys, McAuliffe, Achilles, Fenner/Fannin, Halpin
Germany: Achilles, Bartels, Barthold, Pralow, Schreiber, Kloth, Cords

Offline Craigellachie2019

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith Murray and Sinclair confusion
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 19 July 18 04:04 BST (UK) »
Rosinish - informant on George's 1858 death was son, George Smith.
Scotland: Stewart, Smith, Edward, Barron, Macdonald, Sinclair, Millar/Miller, Ross, Salmon(d), Cuthel, Cuthill, Macalister, McAlaster, McAllister, Forsyth, Haddow, Todd, Aitken, Gartshore, Mackie, Strang
England: Lucas, Parkinson, Nicholls
Ireland: Keys, McAuliffe, Achilles, Fenner/Fannin, Halpin
Germany: Achilles, Bartels, Barthold, Pralow, Schreiber, Kloth, Cords

Offline Craigellachie2019

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith Murray and Sinclair confusion
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 19 July 18 04:20 BST (UK) »
From my first post " I bought Scotlandspeople death for a George Smith d 17 Feb 1858 at Findochty.  It states George Smith was a Fisherman - married - no wife's name.  Says he was 67 and parents were William Smith (Peter) Fisherman decd and Ann Smith nee Smith.  I also have Ann Smith nee Sinclair's death cert in 1869.  Says she is the widow of George Smith and her parents were Alexander Sinclair, boat builder decd, and Isabella Sinclair nee Robertson deceased." 

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I had searched Scotlandspeople for births of children to George Smith and Margaret Murray and found:

Margaret 1810
Alexander 1811
Jane 1820
John 1822
Helen 1825
Ann 1828
Espet 1830

I also searched SP for births of children to George and Ann and found:

William 1812
Ann 1815
Margaret 1817
Alexander 1820
George 1822
Isabella - 1825 (my 2nd gr grandmother)
James 1827
Margaret 1829
William 1831
John 1834
Joseph 1837

I have searched census data for Joseph, John and William and Margaret as they are closest to 1841 census and thought they may still be at home - but no luck.

I have George Smith's death cert of 1858. It says he was 'married' - no wife's name mentioned. Parents William Smith and Ann Smith nee Smith.  Died aged 67.  Informant was son, George Smith.

I have Ann Smith nee Sinclair's death 1869.  It says she was the widow of George Smith, she was aged 76.  Parents Alexander Sinclair boat builder and Isabella Sinclair nee Robertson.  Informant, George Smith, son.  I know she married George on 31 Aug 1811 registered at Rathven, Banff.

I don't know anything more about Margaret Smith nee Murray other than she married George on 30 Sep 1809, registered at Rathven, Banffshire. 

I haven't bought either marriage registration as I have bought many previously in this timeline and they don't show parents names.
I have tried looking for a death of Margaret Smith nee Murray and unless I spend a fortune buying lots of certs, that is a dead end - particularly if she died before 1855.

I was hoping someone may be from either line and may throw some light on the two George's so I can separate them and know each of their parents.  As I say above - I can see one set of parents for George on the 1858 death cert - but which George is he?  Ann's or Margaret's husband?  No census data seems to help so this out.
Scotland: Stewart, Smith, Edward, Barron, Macdonald, Sinclair, Millar/Miller, Ross, Salmon(d), Cuthel, Cuthill, Macalister, McAlaster, McAllister, Forsyth, Haddow, Todd, Aitken, Gartshore, Mackie, Strang
England: Lucas, Parkinson, Nicholls
Ireland: Keys, McAuliffe, Achilles, Fenner/Fannin, Halpin
Germany: Achilles, Bartels, Barthold, Pralow, Schreiber, Kloth, Cords

Offline Craigellachie2019

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith Murray and Sinclair confusion
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 19 July 18 06:35 BST (UK) »
I think I have found the right death for Margaret Smith.  I purchased the cert.  It says she was the widow of George Smith fisherman.  She died on 9 Aug 1878 aged 89.  Says her parents were John Murray fisherman deceased and Margaret Murray nee Stewart deceased.  I had her parents as John Murray and Helen Stewart.  The informant was Jane Farquhar - daughter.  One of George and Margaret's daughters was Jane and she married Robert Farquhar so I believe this is the right Margaret. There are a few census which could be her in 1851 1861 and 1871 but nothing concrete yet.  However this hasn't helped in finding out about the two Georges - which is all I am trying to find.
Scotland: Stewart, Smith, Edward, Barron, Macdonald, Sinclair, Millar/Miller, Ross, Salmon(d), Cuthel, Cuthill, Macalister, McAlaster, McAllister, Forsyth, Haddow, Todd, Aitken, Gartshore, Mackie, Strang
England: Lucas, Parkinson, Nicholls
Ireland: Keys, McAuliffe, Achilles, Fenner/Fannin, Halpin
Germany: Achilles, Bartels, Barthold, Pralow, Schreiber, Kloth, Cords

Offline Craigellachie2019

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Smith Murray and Sinclair confusion
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 19 July 18 06:49 BST (UK) »
PS I also bought the marriage regn of Anne Sinclair and George Smith.  Doesn't give parents names as I expected. 
Scotland: Stewart, Smith, Edward, Barron, Macdonald, Sinclair, Millar/Miller, Ross, Salmon(d), Cuthel, Cuthill, Macalister, McAlaster, McAllister, Forsyth, Haddow, Todd, Aitken, Gartshore, Mackie, Strang
England: Lucas, Parkinson, Nicholls
Ireland: Keys, McAuliffe, Achilles, Fenner/Fannin, Halpin
Germany: Achilles, Bartels, Barthold, Pralow, Schreiber, Kloth, Cords