Author Topic: Confusion as to parents  (Read 466 times)

Offline themonkeymonkey

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Confusion as to parents
« on: Sunday 22 July 18 13:58 BST (UK) »
Bell Manson married Alexander Manson on 3rd December 1820 at Canisbay Caithness, residence given at Moy.   There are no witnesses listed.  Their parents are proving a problem.  I have found a death certificate in 1868 for a Isabella Manson widow of Alexander Manson, fisherman at Whitehouse, Louisburgh which gives parents but I don't know if this is my Bell Manson and Alexander Manson. Calculating her birth date from the certificate means she was born 1786.  The witness is James Manson, son and yes they had a son called James.  If I go with this Isabella being my Bell she also had a brother Alexander who also died at Whitehouse, Louisburgh in 1881.
Alexander i have neither birth nor death dates for.  He is listed as a fisherman in daughter Margarets death certificate and also listed as deceased before Margaret death in 1859.
Their children were:
Janet 1821
James 1824-1897
Isabella 1825-1895
Margaret 1827-1859
John 1830-1862
My main confusion as others also doing similar family tree have different parents for Bell Manson, some saying John Manson and Janet Banks and others saying Alexander Manson and Bell Finlayson.  I am at a loss on which path to take can anyone help please?

Manson, Wilson, Copland, Craighead, Youngson, Ross, Thomson, Smith, Horn

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Offline AMBLY

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Re: Confusion as to parents
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 22 July 18 14:12 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Going purely by naming pattern - often extremely useful in Scotland research - and seeing the births of your couple's children seem close enough together for there not to be missing births that would muddle the pattern, it indicates:

Her mother: Janet
His mother: Isabella? Unless there is a missing daughter birth after Janet and before Isabella.
His father: James
Her father: John

Which fit with John MANSON & Janet BANKS for your Bell.

The 1868 Death certificate: what are the names and occupations of the parents?
And the occupation and address of the informant son, if it's given?

What are the details of your Bell in the Census 1841, 1851 and 1861?

Cheers
AMBLY


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

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Offline themonkeymonkey

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Re: Confusion as to parents
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 22 July 18 14:18 BST (UK) »
In the 1868 death certificate, husband Alexander (deceased) fisherman.  Parents John Manson (labourer) and Janet Banks.
In the 1851 census Isabella is shown as head aged 56 living with daughters Margaret (25) and Isabella (22) at Breadalbank Terrace, Pultney.  I have not as yet found any other census but I am looking.  Thanks.
Manson, Wilson, Copland, Craighead, Youngson, Ross, Thomson, Smith, Horn

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Confusion as to parents
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 22 July 18 15:08 BST (UK) »
In the 1851 census Isabella is shown as head aged 56 living with daughters Margaret (25) and Isabella (22) at Breadalbank Terrace, Pultney.

How sure are you this is your Bell and her daughters?  Wasn't you Bell's daughter Margaret younger than daughter Isabella?

You say the daughter Margaret (of your Bell)  died 1859 - was she married?

There is the following Census:

1851 White House, Wick
Parish 43, ED 4, Folio 0, Pg 20, HS 75
Head: Janet MANSON 82, unm, Pauper, b Canisbay
Dau: Isabella MANSON 56, unm.b Canisbay
Dau: Margaret MANSON 48, unm, b Canisbay
Son Alexander MANSON 45, unm, Fisherman, b Canisbay
Gransdon: Thomas FARMER 13, Scholar, b Wick
Gr-Son: Alexander SHEARER 9, b Wick
Gr-Son: John MANSON 18, unm, Cooper, b Canisbay

Could this not be Janet nee BANKS and her children?   Daughter Isabella might be you Bell, (It wasn't uncommon for a Scottish widow to revert to maiden name and state her marital status to as 'unmarried; though so that does cause some issues :-) and Grandson John the Cooper, could be Isabella's son?


Same Family in 1861:

1861: Address: Louisburgh, Wick

Parish 43, ED2, Folio 0, Page 37 , HS 193
Head: Alexander MANSON 60, unmarried, Fisherman, b Canisbay
Sister: Isabella MANSON 67, married, b Canisbay, Caithness
Sister: Margaret MANSON 63, married,  b Canisbay, Caithness
Nephew: Thomas FARMER 20, unmarried, Cooper, b Wick
Niece: Isabella PARK 9, Scholar (Orphan) b Wick
Niece: Margaret PARK 8, Scholar (Orphan) b Wick
Niece: Charlotte PARK 6, Scholar (Orphan) b Wick
Niece: Jessie PARK 4, Orphan, b Wick

The nieces at least, could be Great-Neices: This appears to be their parents:

Hutchison PARK and Margaret MANSON, married 1849 Wick
They are in Louisburgh 1851, with :
Dau:  Isabella is age 10 mnths.
Visitor: William SHEARER 20, Cooper.
He's a fisherman, b Glasgow.
His wife Margaret is age 20, born Canisbay - about 1831

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Confusion as to parents
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 22 July 18 15:27 BST (UK) »
In the 1851 census Isabella is shown as head aged 56 living with daughters Margaret (25) and Isabella (22) at Breadalbank Terrace, Pultney. 
This isn't your Bell. I think this Isabella is nee DUNNET and her late husband was William MANSON.

And keeping in mind you say your Bell's daughter Margaret died 1859 - Pultney Isbella and her same 2 spinster daughters are all together in the 1861 and 1871 Census.  Here's  the 1861:

At Lower Dunbar Street, Wick Burgh, Caithness
Head: Isabella MANSON 65, widow, midwife, b Wick
Dau: Margaret F MANSON 35, umn, b Wick
Dau: Isabella MANSON 31, unm, b Wick

Birth: Margaret Falconer MANSON, b 2 Oct 1825, parents William MANSON & Isabella DUNNET, baptised Wick on 25 Nov 1825.   

In 1871 they are still at address:  Pulteneytown.

Update:
I just saw on SP that:
Margaret MANSON, died 1859 age 29 ( b abt 1830)  ) mms: MANSON, other surname PARK.
(noting: Was she not really more like 31 or 32, if she was born 1827)

So that seems to clarify the 1851 & 1861 Louisburgh family is correct.

I also see a Janet MANSON, mms BANKS death in Wick, 1857, age 89

Cheer
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline themonkeymonkey

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Re: Confusion as to parents
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 22 July 18 15:45 BST (UK) »
Yes Margaret was married to Hutcheson Park. 
Yes I also wondered if that could be my Bell in 1851 at Whitehouse, Wick.  John Manson was a Cooper just seen his death certificate :).  So the probability (hopefully) is that Janet Banks is the mother and John Manson was father.  Janet Banks is in the 1841 Census at Whitehouse, Wick aged 60 with Isabella aged 40 and Alexander aged 30 but that could be Isabellas brother Alexander and not her husband.  John is there aged 8, Margaret aged 10, Isabella aged 14, Janet 16, David and Charlotte Manson 20 (don't know them but will look).  Thanks.
Manson, Wilson, Copland, Craighead, Youngson, Ross, Thomson, Smith, Horn

Offline themonkeymonkey

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Re: Confusion as to parents
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 22 July 18 17:41 BST (UK) »
Re-looking at Margarets birth as it says her father is a farmer not a fisherman so maybe she was not born in 1827 after all but 1830 ish as per her death certificate states but as yet have not found any evidence.
Manson, Wilson, Copland, Craighead, Youngson, Ross, Thomson, Smith, Horn