Peter Venn, Millwright, on the Isle of Wight

[eaasland]

Hi there,

I am looking for an individual, Peter Venn, who shows up in the 1861 census. He is living at the home of William Hatton, a millwright, who owns the Millwrights Arms. Both William Hatton's home and his pub, the Millwright Arms, are located at 7 Russell Street, in Newport on the Isle of Wight. Russell Street was re-named Orchard Street in late 1861.

I believe the Peter Venn, also a millwright, who is living with William Hatton is my great-great grandfather, Peter Paul Louis Venn (PPLV). The 1861 Peter Venn was born in 1824, in Italy (according to the census). My great-great grandfather, PPLV, as far as I have been able to determine, does not show up in any records prior to his marriage to Elizabeth Dyer, in Andover, Hampshire, in 1863. The marriage registration for PPLV and Elizabeth Dyer shows that PPLV was born in 1832 (not 1824) and records PPLV's father as Joseph Venn, a farmer.

The problem is that PPLV, when he appears in the 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901 censuses, states that he was born in 1832 and in Drury Lane, London.

There is a family rumour that that family was originally from France and spelt the surname Venné, but I have never been able to confirm this. However, based on the 1861 Peter Venn, born in 1824, in Italy, could PPLV actually have been born in Italy, in 1824. I have not been able to find a Peter Venn, millwright, born in 1824, in Italy in the 1841 or 1851 censuses, or any others for that matter.

Well, all this to say that I am wondering if there might be some way to find our more about the 1861 Peter Venn (b. 1824, in Italy) living in Newport on the Isle of Wight?

My thinking is that the 1861 Peter Venn could be my great-great grandfather, and that he came to England from Italy. He may have been been a journeyman millwright (if such a thing existed at that time), which might explain how he ended up in Andover. He may have lied about his age and place of birth when he met Elizabeth Dyer (maybe not to her, but at least when the census enumerator came around, or other authorities).

I do not have any issues with PPLV and his life after 1863, as that part of my family tree I have researched and have no issues with. It's just me wanting to know how he got to England and from where.

Well, I know that this might be tricky to research, but thank you very, very much for any help with this, it is very much appreciated.

Erik Aasland
Ottawa, Canada

[CaroleW]

What age and occupation is shown for PPLV on the 1863 marriage cert

[avm228]

I see that he was recorded as a 32 yr old millwright, of Andover, on his marriage at Andover Independent Chapel on 8 August 1863.

Witnesses: Joseph Dyer, Kate Bartlett.

[CaroleW]

Seems likely it's the same person as 1861 given the occupation

[eaasland]

Hi there,

Sorry, should have noted that. They married August 8, 1863, in the Independent Chapel in East Street, in Andover. He is a bachelor, age 32, millwright. His father is Joseph Venn, a farmer. Elizabeth Venn (nee Dyer) would have a few months pregnant with their first child, Joseph Robert Venn (b. Dec. 26, 1863).

Thank you.

[eaasland]

Joseph Dyer was Elizabeth's brother, and Kate Bartlett lived just up the street from Elizabeth, so perhaps a life-long friend.

[avm228]

So after marriage (to summarise) he appears as follows:

1871: Peter P L Venn, 39, ag lab b London
1881: Peter Venn, 49, turner in wood b London - Drury Lane
1891: Peter Venn, 59, wood turner b London, Drury Lane
1901: Peter Paul Venn, 69, single (!), carpenter, b London (visiting married daughter Alice Millbourne)
1904: Death as Peter Paul Louis Venn, 71, Jun qtr 1904 Hampstead.

[eaasland]

Hi there, that looks right. His wife, Elizabeth Dyer, passes away in 1901 and he moves in with their daughter, Alice Milbourne (nee Venn). He passes away in 1904 at the home of his other daughter, Annie Eady (nee Venn).

I'm just not sure why he's been so difficult to find before 1863, which leads me to believe that he is likely the Peter Venn, millwright, living in Newport on the Isle of Wight. If so, then he's from Italy, but how of course did he end up in England from Italy, and why of course did he feel the need to lie about his place of birth and age, both when he married and in the censuses.

Sigh...

[CaroleW]

Guesswork only.  His 1861 details may have been provided to the enumerator by somebody else in the household if Peter was at work at that time

However - that doesn’t explain why he can’t be found in earlier censuses??