Author Topic: Peter Venn, Millwright, on the Isle of Wight  (Read 1791 times)

Offline eaasland

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Re: Peter Venn, Millwright, on the Isle of Wight
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 26 July 18 18:27 BST (UK) »
You are right, it's just guesswork on my part. Plus he seems to have a lot of names compared to most at that time, which also leaves me guessing about his past.


Offline avm228

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Re: Peter Venn, Millwright, on the Isle of Wight
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 26 July 18 18:27 BST (UK) »
Very odd!  I am inclined to agree that he is likely to be the same person you have found in 1861 - but which set of information about him is reliable (if any)?

The 1861 information is given in the context of his being one of several lodgers in the household.  This usually comes with a bit of a health warning - the householder filling in the form may not have known him very well and could have got the wrong end of the stick (e.g. he speaks a bit of Italian therefore born in Italy?).

Post-marriage information is at least consistent, and comes from the horse's mouth as it were.  But did he reduce his age in order to close the gap with his wife Elizabeth?  And where was he before 1861, if born in London?

I see from an online tree that there are surviving photos of him - are these dated, and does his appearance in them assist with what his correct age is likely to have been?

Drury Lane would have been a rather "colourful" area in the 1830s (and a slum).  If he was indeed born there, his childhood may be have spent in difficult circumstances.

Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline eaasland

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Re: Peter Venn, Millwright, on the Isle of Wight
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 26 July 18 18:45 BST (UK) »
Hi, yes, very odd. The picture is from an original I have. It's of PPLV and his sons, and they are all grown in it, making the it likely from the 1880s or 90s. One thing of note though is that they tended to have darker complexions and hair. They weren't very tall, in fact quite short. In fact, one of the sons, his nickname was Darkie because he had a darker complexion than the other sons. Again, this is guesswork, but they looked more continental if I can say that, more southern European maybe?

Offline eaasland

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Re: Peter Venn, Millwright, on the Isle of Wight
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 26 July 18 19:00 BST (UK) »
Tere is a description of the Millwright Arms from an article on it I found a few year back , see https://www.wightwash.org.uk/pdf/Autumn2002.pdf  - pages 10 and 11).

"The rare picture above is a small section of a larger photograph of Newport taken from
the air in 1932 and shows the area around the junction between South Street, Church Litten
and Town Lane. The Prince of Wales pub can be seen clearly with its new exterior of
mock Tudor cladding, but now look across the road opposite to what today is a public car
park. There stands the Millwrights Arms facing into a ramshackle courtyard with little
terrace houses all around. See how Orchard Street sits in the shade and grave stones
stand in Church Litten graveyard on the lower right of the picture.

By the time this photograph was taken, the Millwright Arms had been closed for
a quarter of a century but its memory lived on as a notorious public house of ill repute.
Newport in the late 18th century had had many inns that had a certain unsavoury character
and this old inn plied its trade amongst the slums that have since been cleared away.

It had several names before settling on the Millwrights Arms including the Flower Pot,
Rum Puncheon and Rose & Crown. It was also apparently the home of bogus cripples, blind men and other unfortunate beggars, who quickly relinquished their various “ailments” once inside its hospitable doors.

It lasted until 1905 when it was closed after approximately two hundred years of existence.
Some little snippets of history remain to give a flavour of its life.

Hampshire Telegraph 23rd October 1820
Lot 1. “ The Rum Puncheon”. A large and roomy dwelling house, situate in
South Street, formerly known by the name of Rum Puncheon, now used as a private
house, in the occupation of Mr. Benjamin Davies and his under-tenants.
The house comprises two rooms in front, the back ditto, four good chambers,
and two rooms in attic, with a large store near adjoining with useful out-buildings.

A messuage, heretofore a public house called the Flower Pot, since the Millwright
Arms, lately called the Rum Puncheon, and since called the Rose &
Crown (1/2 place of ground) in Newport, on north side of South Street, late in occupation
of Thomas Davies and since of William Rose, bounded on east by
lands of Read Taylor, bricklayer, on west by lands of William Clarke and on
south by South Street.

The above undated deed gets the location completely wrong by having both the north
side and the south side of the building facing South Street but presumably Thomas Davies
is Benjamin Davies son and this places the deed 20 or 30 years after the 1820 Hampshire
Telegraph advertisement.

Going further back in time to 1805, Phineas Board, a young band-master on board Nelson’s
flagship, the Victory, writes to his mother at the Sign of the Millwrights Arms, on
the 25th August whilst the British fleet were waiting for the French fleet to come out to
battle.

Dear Mother, This comes with my fond love to you, hoping these few lines to you
will find you all well, as it leaves me at present, thank God. This is the third letter hi
wrought to you, and hi am very oneasy because hi dont know whether you get my half
pay because hi sent my Will and power to you and hi shant be happy untill hi know.
So send me an answer as quick as possable. We expect the French fleet out every day.
Dear mother, hi think hi made my fortune with the rich prisoner we have taken, so hi
shall be able to do something for you all very shortly. God bless you all.
Phineas.


The actual Battle of Trafalgar took place on 21st October 1805, young Phineas’s fate is
unknown. A hundred years later the inn closed and the door on another chapter of Newport’s
history swung shut.


Offline eaasland

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Re: Peter Venn, Millwright, on the Isle of Wight
« Reply #13 on: Friday 27 July 18 12:32 BST (UK) »
HI there,

Here is a picture of PPLV and his sons. I think he is standing, at left. He looks like the eldest person in the picture.

Erik

Offline avm228

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Re: Peter Venn, Millwright, on the Isle of Wight
« Reply #14 on: Friday 27 July 18 13:09 BST (UK) »
I’d have thought the gentleman seated in the centre is likely to be the senior one?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline eaasland

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Re: Peter Venn, Millwright, on the Isle of Wight
« Reply #15 on: Friday 27 July 18 13:15 BST (UK) »
Yes, me too, I've debated over and over again, as to which on is older. The one seated to his left is my great-grandfather,  Peter Louis Venn (1865-1932). The other seat man is Albert Edward Venn who had a long career in the Royal Navy. He is the one that was called Darkie.

Offline avm228

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Re: Peter Venn, Millwright, on the Isle of Wight
« Reply #16 on: Friday 27 July 18 13:17 BST (UK) »
Leaving aside appearance, it seems to me likely that a photographer would naturally have arranged a “father and sons” composition with the father in the central (dominant) position and the sons surrounding him.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Re: Peter Venn, Millwright, on the Isle of Wight
« Reply #17 on: Friday 27 July 18 14:31 BST (UK) »
That's a very good point, and makes good sense. That tells then that he is likely the one in the middle.