thank you for all your replies, I am somewhat overwhelmed now, suffice to say that I will have to digest all your replies and find a way of compiling an answer which will hopefully make sense. I am certain my wife who did visit james futter and elizas grave did so in the belief that they were futters, of course a cover up may be in place, and her mother knew, perhaps illegitimacy, the 1911 census started this off for me as I couldn't find a marriage, although it says 22 yrs, I think eliza had been married before and the age of james on the census has been altered, I will come back after putting some other facts in place.