Author Topic: John Tierney  (Read 2354 times)

Offline heywood

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Re: John Tierney
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 28 July 18 10:09 BST (UK) »
A death and a marriage.
Death: 1867 Thomas Tierney aged 60 at the workhouse. (Preston Herald 12th Oct.)
Marriage: 1885  Catherine Tierney (May). I thought this might be the Catherine who was with Bridget on 1871 census.

Lots of Tierneys :)

The May 1885 marriage of Catherine Tierney and William  Holmes shows her father as Martin. :-\
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Offline Darren2510

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Re: John Tierney
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 28 July 18 17:29 BST (UK) »

Hi, Thanks for the welcome and to everyone who took the time to try and see what they could find.
there is a lot to go through and see what fits.
My Granddad Tierney was Catholic. John Tierney jnr and Bridget i thought might have gone into the workhouse because my G Granddad Tierney had died. Not sure when they went in tho.
On my Granddads birth cert jOHN Tierney snr has put he was a Hawker. Read this could mean he was maybe a Gypsie, also he signed it with a cross. Could this explain why they dont appear on any census.
Thanks again everyone its been a great help.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: John Tierney
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 28 July 18 21:34 BST (UK) »
Darren, it just proves what I said in answer to your original post on the Lancashire Archives look-up thread that if you posted on a different board the enquiry would attract interest and hopefully some relevant information.  :)
A hawker was someone who sold items out of doors rather than in a shop. They were supposed to buy a hawker's licence from town council but some didn't. Some of those who didn't buy licences might occasionally be arrested and charged with selling without a licence. A lot of Irish or people who had no other employment did it. I read recently that it was the commonest occupation of Irish women in England on one census. (I didn't take a note of source.) Browsing a 19thC census in a working-class area of a large town or city with a significant Irish population, one notices groups of hawkers in cheap lodging houses. Your people may have gone door-to-door or stood in a busy street with their wares. They may have travelled to other towns and villages, depending on what they had to offer. Items they were selling could have been anything from food to brushes.

Plenty of reasons you haven't found them on a census:
 They might be there but hidden because  names recorded on census forms and then copied into census books may not be what you expect them to be. As John couldn't write (and Bridget probably couldn't either), names on forms would be written as the person doing the writing heard them and thought they might be spelled. A census enumerator then had to decipher those names and copy them into the census enumerator's book. A modern transcriber has to decipher old handwriting (or scrawl) in the census enumerator's books to create present-day indexes. Lots of opportunities for mistakes in transcription. Even worse with Irish names which may have been unfamiliar to census clerks and spoken with a brogue.
They might have been in and out of the workhouse a few times. Families were split up on admission. A person's details on census may have been incorrect or incomplete.
Being hawkers they might have been travelling around. Census enumerators had instructions to find out if people were sleeping in outhouses or tents etc.
They may have been in another part of the UK at census time. They might have gone back to Ireland or to Scotland. There was an extensive railway system by late 19thC with cheap 3rd class tickets. Also frequent, cheap sea-crossings through several Lancashire, Irish and Scottish ports.

What address was on John Junior's 1873 birth certificate? Have you checked this address on 1871 census to see who was there? Browse the street and area nearby. They would have been in cheap lodgings and may have moved frequently but might not have gone far.

Cowban

Offline Darren2510

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Re: John Tierney
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 28 July 18 21:50 BST (UK) »

Hi Thanks for the info and it did get a lot of help of the members when i put it on another board.

On the birth cert for John jnr the address is 7, Syke Street Preston, but still not seeing anything.

Trying different spellings now see if i can trace anything to them.

thanks for the help and advice.



Offline heywood

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Re: John Tierney
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 28 July 18 21:54 BST (UK) »
Hello and welcome  :)

Lancashire BMD http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php shows several possible births and some deaths for the children.

1865 Mary Ann and Michael with McGill
1868 Daniel - McGill
1869 Elizabeth - McGuill

1871 census
1871 4174/14/21 has
Bridget Tearn 31 yrs b Ireland
Catherine Tearn 11 yrs b Ireland
Elizabeth Tearn 2 yrs b Preston
Boarding  in Blackburn.
There is a McGuire family boarding too - not McGuill though.

I wonder if these are your family?

Heywood

Sorry I keep adding to this
Both women are Brush Hawkers

I think this family might be worth keeping in mind. Mary McQuire and Bridget Tearn are both married but no husbands present. They are both Brush Hawkers.
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Offline Darren2510

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Re: John Tierney
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 28 July 18 22:07 BST (UK) »
Hi Heywood

thanks for the info and looking. I will keep it in mind.
The name Mcgill or Mcguill i sort of put down has on the Lancashire BMD the maiden name for John Tierney jnr mum is McGwill and think that is miss spelt.
I sent for the birth certificate and thats were the other information came from. Bridget being a Hawker i got from Fulwood Workhouse 1881 census.
thanks again for your time.

Offline heywood

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Re: John Tierney
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 28 July 18 22:18 BST (UK) »
In 1871 number 7 Sykes Street is occupied by William Cowell, 23 yrs b Preston. People tended to move around a lot.

A few streets away, there is this family - again just for information but might be useful.

1871 4204/69/4
3 Addison’s Yard, Church Street, Preston

Matthew McGuill   66 yrs General Dealer b Dromantee, Ireland
Alice McGuill 52 yrs
Mary McGuill 21 yrs
Ann McGuill 19 yrs
Michael McGuill 16 yrs
Paddy McGuill 11 yrs

There is a Dromintee in Armagh. Bridget shows Armagh as birthplace in 1881.

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Offline Darren2510

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Re: John Tierney
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 28 July 18 22:33 BST (UK) »
Thats interesting Thanks for that.

The address on the birth certificate was 1873 so like you say they probably did move.
The Mcguill Family, Bridget could be the oldest daughter.
Think i might go with the spelling McGuill than McGill just now.
Thanks again

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: John Tierney
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 28 July 18 22:43 BST (UK) »
Lots of Tierneys :)

Yes indeed. And more than 1 each of Bridget and John in Preston of similar ages.
My Irish family in Preston in the same era are also confusing. Most females were Bridget, Mary, Catherine or Ann/Hannah/Honor (interchangeable). Mothers were all Ann or Bridget. Several cousins with same names and similar ages.
Cowban