Advice please on which test to do to maybe break down my brick wall.

[Braytons]

Dear All

I need advice on DNA testing and whether it might help to answer my main brick wall?

My maternal Grandmother, long dead, was listed on the Census of 1881 as having been born in South of France and her brother born in South America.

I have researched quite fully the rest of my maternal line to about 1690 ish.  They are families from Northampton and Suffolk who moved to London in the early 1800s. 

Is there a chance that any particular DNA test would give me an answer whether my Grandmother really was from Europe and my Great Uncle from South America?  I suspect that they were of suspect parentage and their origins were smudged on the Census.  Neither of their births were registered.

I am struggling to understand all the different tests and feel I am wading through treacle.

Thank you
Braytons

[sugarfizzle]

An autosomal DNA test should give you information about all of your lines at great grandparents level, which is what you will be looking for.

However, it can't​ prove specifically that your grandmother was from France and your grand uncle was from S. America. A family that travelled that far between births, if the census is correct, is likely to be a military or travelling family from elsewhere.

If you grandmother was your maternal one, X DNA testing might indicate her roots, but unlikely if she was really descended from French parents - DNA testing is illegal in France, so not many of them will have had any sort of DNA test.

Is this England and Wales 1881 you are talking about? Perhaps a few details might help us to decipher the birth places, which you say are smudged. Do they only appear on one census?

Regards Margaret

[Annette7]

For what it's worth, I suspect the 'children' may have been adopted.   Robert and Mary married 1861 and in 1871 are in St. Pancras with Mary's mother Sarah Yorke - no children after 10 years.  1871 Census taken on 2/4/1871 yet 'son' Robert is said on baptism to have been born 24/2/1871??

Besides son Robert bp'd 1875, and Mary bp'd 1876 there was another child in between: Mary Augusta Jane Susannah b.27/12/1872, bp.4/5/1873 St Pancras who appears to have died as plain Mary in Dec.1873.
 
I doubt very much that Robert (also known as George) and Mary ever left these shores - he was a cabman from marriage 1861 through to 1881 and in 1891/1901 the couple are still in St. Pancras but with no children.    Where are 'son' Robert Richard born 1871 and 'daughter' Mary Eliza Amelia born 1875 in 1891?   I can't seem to find these 2 after 1881??

All somewhat mysterious.

Annette

[josey]

Perhaps a few details might help us to decipher the birth places, which you say are smudged. Do they only appear on one census?

I suspect Braytons means 'fudged' not smudged 

For what it's worth, I suspect the 'children' may have been adopted.

This makes sense & would explain why parents said birthplaces were abroad.

[carol8353]

Does this family have a surname?

Ahaha I've found them in 1871 their surname is VINCENT.

George born in Chatham Kent and Mary in Chelsea Middx.

[carol8353]

I can't see the birth of a Mary Augusta Jane in either FreeBMD or on the GRO website with mmn's?

[sugarfizzle]

If you think the two children may have been adopted, there is nothing to tell you whether they were at all related to each other or their 'parents'.

So, to return to the original question, an autosomal DNA test is likely to help you  find your grandmother's origins, as long as she wasn't born in France, as already explained.

It will not help you with her brother's origins at all, whether he was full, half or no sibling, unless he has also got descendants who have tested

Likewise with Y testing, it might indicate her origins, unless she was born in France. It won't help with her brother's origins at all, as his descendants won't have the y DNA of their mother.

Margaret

[Braytons]

Thank you all for your replies. 

Yes, I think you are right.  I have been through this puzzle repeatedly on here and in my own research and strongly suspect that the children were informally adopted.  I just thought maybe a DNA test might cast a little bit more light as it is only my Grandmother, e.g. so recent.   

Unfortunately I have been unable to contact successfully any descendants of Robert Richard, Mary's brother which if they had a DNA test might show we are not related? 

Thank you Margaret for clarifying the problem with any DNA test.

Any more thoughts?
Braytons

[sugarfizzle]

If both you and any of Robert's descendants had autosomal DNA testing it should indicate if Robert and Mary were siblings.

At this degree of cousinship it should be a pretty good match.

A negative match at this degree of cousinship is likely to indicate that they were not brother and sister, but probably not confirmative.

A positive test is likely to indicate that they were related, and not in itself confirmative, but taken in conjunction with any shared matches, might be considered to be so.

Regards Margaret