Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher

[skyshot1990]

Well it would seem Joseph Wilsher and Elizabeth Wilsher nee Woodward were still moving around till at least 1903... With one of their son's Frank being born in a van at 1903 in Worksop, Nottinghamshire.

Their son Henry Wilsher and Mary Earl plus Joseph Wilsher 1907(my great gran father) are at Rawmarsh, Rotherham  in a 1911 census... With Henry and Joseph being in Nottingham by about the 1920s.

Romani language has been a interest to me,

I purchased 4 books on the subject, Hanock Handbook of Vlax Romani, Learn romani Ronald Lee, Romani dictionary: English- Kalderash Lee, Romani dictionary: Kalderash - English Lee...

Kalderash Romani seems to be the most documented language style, yet there seems to be countless branches of it... Learning it from books is a problem too, because you need to hear it, but its good information. -

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Have you come across an Amelia Wilsher, William married young according to this record, Rebecca wed at 15, do you know how many Williams there was in the timescale of the early 1900s, there maybe could be to lots of Williams, it’s a big name in the Wilshers

Saturday 04 February 1922
  Nottingham Journal
 Nottinghamshire 
 
  William Willsher (23). hawker, was also committed to the Assises. The charge against him was that he married Rose Phillips on 18 August, 1919. his wife, Amelia, whom’ he married in May, 1915. being still alive. Rose Phillips, of 10. Sidney-street. Nottingham, said that she met Wilsher in June, 1919. Later they went to Grimsby, and returning to Nottingham were married in St. Mary's Church. The man told her he was single, but four months ago she discovered he was married. A man Mr Lewis gave evidence for he was the witness to the wedding


 Is Frank Wiltshire below born 1903 the same Frank with Albert, the dates are right
Brothers and sister
Frank Wilcher 1903
Sarah Wilshire 1900
Henry Wilshire 1886
Joseph Wiltshire 1884

Their grandfather
Joseph Wilshaw 1844


Friday 11 June 1926
    Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire 
extract

DISCHARGED WITH A WARNING.
 FAILURE OF PROSECUTION AGAINST NOTTM. HAWKERS.

A somewhat unusual charge of attempting to obtain 10s by false pretences was against two hawkers at the Nottingham  Guildhall today. They were Albert Ward. 26, 113 Red Lion-street, and Frank Wiltshire, 23, of 22 Woburn-street. and R. A. Young, who defended them, pleadad not guilty. Charles Pratt, 4, Castle-square. Houndsgate. said they called at his house and offered him   eight yards of inlaid lino,  saying they had been working for a Leeds firm at Castle-boulevard and that the stuff was the remnant of a job. , Pratt was suspicious that the stuff had been stolen, and first refused to buy it for the £4 which was asked, but subsequently agreed a price and gave them a deposit of 15s.6d., asking them to call again. In the meantime he informed the police, and when the men returned Detective-officers Winfield and Blakey met them. They Both ran away, but were caught, and subsequently admitted that they had not been doing a job for a Leeds firm on Castleboulevard.It was stated that there were 5 yards in the roll, and not 8 yards, an expert said it was printed linoleum, and worth about 27s.6d. in reply to Mr. Young, Pratt said they allowed him to look at the stuff, and agreed that if his wife, who was out at the time, did not approve of it, he would of returned his 15s 6d. deposit. Mr. Young argued that the puffing of wares was not an offence. He agreed that commercial tricks of that sort were not commendable, and perhaps there ought to be some limit to the margin of profit that could be obtained, but the case did not amount to fraud, Pratt was left with the stuff to inspect it. The magistrates Dr Blurton and Mr A. Eblerlin dismissed the case, but told accused to more careful in the future



Good luck with the books, just enjoy yourself, It would not be of interest to me, there are lots of books on-line free to read at your pleasure, books like the parson of Lincoln, in these types of books they tell of the Gipsy words that was spoken by the Gipsies of this land, you may find things like this more to your likeing, plus you get to read of their life, of course lots is left out, strange how you say your Father new nothing, his own dad must of just pulled away from everything to not pass nothing down, I Guess I was very lucky that through the relatives they passed much down to me, your always going on about Romany's, that's how lots of people talk, I do not think there are as many Romany's left as people think and that word is just banded and branded about, I try not to use that word out of respect, if you never was told nothing or your Dad, you just would not understand what I am saying, of course this is just how I feel, I do not think theres a single person alive who thinks like I do, I don't mind tho being the only one to say such things, I would say there are Romany Family's about in this day for sure, but again I will not say no more on this, as long as people in the future who read my words know I don't go using such talk, if I have ever talked stupid in the past, well, what can you do, we all make mistakes, I did remember my Mother talking of the Holmes, she said they was a very Old Romany Family, in this day tho its all gone crackers, you have to have this, you have to have that, its like you have to have a Gipsy pass-port, and thousands say they have one to, this is how you know the Romany, they just let the world go by and just laugh, well, I don't know if they do, I just imagine that's what a Romany would do with all the talk I have listened to over about ten yeares, I may be wrong, but good luck with your books, I am just a scrag end, something what the cat draged in, my Mother said I was as radged as a brush, she said I talked like a goat to, and more she often said when I came home from being out all day wandering all over, well, she said, look at ya, you look like you've been draged through an hedge backwards, one day me and my Brothers realised that we was all radged, we called it the radgedness, you just cannot help it, its born in you, you will never know of it, only if your radged, that's just the truth of it, you wont find that in the books

Will you answer the questions above about Frank and Amelia

[skyshot1990]

It would seem a good bet it is the same Frank Wilshire... I have tried tracing any kids of Frank but have been unable, he was married though.

Amelia Wilsher is a new name to me, I can do some looking and fine a marriage if it happen.

The William one is a hard one though, I have mapped out a extremely large and detailed Wilsher tree, with every type of document you could think of, I still believe the tree should be about double the size... The problem is some lines just vanish and some births are before certificates/census. Which makes it extremely hard to add correct places.

James Wilsher also seems like a name that pops up in news reports, and in branches of trees, I am  unable to match to my own because of correct proof.

My grandad Joseph always made clear of our heritage and was extremely proud, but never overly talked a great deal about it... He would mostly just say that was then, and I am here and this my life now. That said all my uncles and aunts all know the same stories and tales.

I was not long down a pub with a uncle, I started telling him about all my research... He stopped me and said "If you had just come to me, I could of told you we come from that". I laughed and said yes but I wanted 100% proof and documents...

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When i research the articles in the newspapers i write down all the names that come up, not just the name i was looking for, then i research that name, by doing this great things come up, i do the same thing with street names or anything rearly, so if you read these extracts below names like Joseph Wiltshire come up, and George Smith, evan Charles Bacon who i have been researching on another page comes up in the storys, the Bacons are related to the Woodwards, i have found the Bacons on Lucknow street to, read these storys to get a feel for the times, there is a public house still standing on the same place in the market area, it was a poachers pub, there was iron peggs on the window sills that the game was strung up on yeares back, it was known as the pretty windows, and then peggers, i think its rearl name was the Fox and Grapes, check out all these storys, i think there is much to learn yet, Sneinton was packed with poachers and dealers, a massive history, i never new the amount that i now know, it as opened my eyes, genealogy history is a great subject to learn real truth, and me born and bred here, it just goes to show the vallue of learning

If you click on this link below the Fox and Grapes Public House comes up, it is the only building left standing from the times of Joseph Wiltshire who lived at the back of this pub where that big building now stands, on either side of this pub were the many streets that your relatives lived on, under the windows was iron spikes for all the game animals to be strung to while the poachers went for a drink, people would buy rabbits and game like that from this place, all your relatives would of walked through these doors into that old pub, and no dout fell out sometimes when they had a few to many, everyplace now is gone mostley, this is one of the last standing buildings, it dates from the 1830s
 
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5418223


Wednesday 10 January 1906
  Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire

THIS DAY'S POLICE NEWS
  —The five Nottingham men—Joseph Wiltshire, George Smith, Edward Birch, Thomas Bickley, and Thomas Peacock —, who last Saturday were summoned for poaching  were discharged through lack of evidence
 
 Thursday 16 October 1913
  Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire

ARMED WITH THICK STICKS
  Bingham Petty Sessions to-day in prosecuting Arthur Straw, of Wat-street, Colwick-street, Nottingham, and Edward Birch, of 21, Nelson street, Gedling-street, for trespassing on the Great Northern Railway on September 
 
 Thursday 24 September 1908
 Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire 

WHAT THEY DID WITH THE SUMMONSES
  NOTTM. POACHERS’ FONDNESS FOR GOOSE FAIR.
Three Sneinton poachers, named John Golland and Thomas and Edward Birch, should have appeared at the Bingham Petty Sessions to-day to answer charges under the Poaching Prevention Act, but failed to appear
 
 

  Friday 20 November 1931
  Nottingham Journal
  Nottinghamshire 

Eighty previous convictions were shared between three Nottingham poachers who appeared at the police-court yesterday. Edward Birch (60). labourer, lodging In Sussex-street. Nottingham, against whom 39 previous convictions bad been recorded
 
 
  Wednesday 01 January 1913
  Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire 

NOTTINGHAM  POACHER AND THE RABBITS.
Having previously been before the magistrates on no fewer than 36 occasions, Thomas Bickley, of 24, Lees-yard, Red Lion-street, who was charged in the Nottingham Summons Court to-day 
 
  Wednesday 14 November 1906
 Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire

POACHERS AND THE FOWLS
  Thomas Bickley, of 16, Foundry-yard, Red Lion-street-, and John Hopewell, both labourers, of Nottingham, were charged with stealing 15 live tame fowls, on the 11th inst, owned Mr. J. T. Forman, of Wilford House, Wilford   
 
  Thursday 06 April 1911
  Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire 

  NOTTINGHAM POACHERS HEAVILY FINED.
Thomas Bickley, labourer, 26, Lees-yard, Harry Butlin, labourer, 18, Cherry-place, and Arthur Bruce, collier, 36, Bromley-street, all of Nottingham, pleaded guilty before the Bingham Bench to-day 
 
 
 

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continued

Monday 06 September 1915
 Nottingham Journal
  Nottinghamshire 

GAMEKEEPERS AND POACHERS
  Night Struggle in Field near Widmerpool. Three reputed. Nottingham poachers, Arthur Straw. Samuel Willmott. and John Morris, were summoned to appear at the Nottingham Shire Hall Saturday to answer a charge of night poaching at Widmerpool ...
 
  Saturday 11 June 1910
  Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire

POACHING AT RUDDINGTON
  The man said he knew what the constable wanted, as Johnson had spoken to him about it. The man. Arthur Straw, a powerfully-built and humorous fellow, was summoned with Johnson, but he vigorously asserted that the officer was mistaken 
 

  Wednesday 04 July 1923
  Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire

 NOTTM. POACHERS PLEA.
COULD NOT GET WORK ON ACCOUNT OF AGE.
Described as an experienced poacher who never used violence, Arthur Straw, 61, Nottingham, pleaded guilty at the Shire Hall, to-day, to night poaching at Gotham. His convictions, chiefly for poaching, dated as far back as 1884. Defendant pleaded that he was obliged to poach. He could not get work on account of his age. When he asked for relief he was told to enter the workhouse. He did not wish to go to the spike, and could not starve. The chairman (Mr. F. Whyatt): This country doesn't allow people altogether to starve. It is not quite as bad as that. Defendant was fined £4. Or 14 days in default.

  Thursday 09 March 1911
 Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire, England

POACHER AND HIS GUN
 defendant came to his house and demanded the gun, remarking, my name is Arthur Straw, of 1, Pump-street, Nottingham, and if the gun is not there in a week's time I'll make you smell of Arthur Straw.” He added that he would poach witness and do for him
 
 
Wednesday 02 June 1920
  Nottingham Evening Post
 Nottinghamshire

THE HOUSE ON THE HILL.
ARNOLD MAN LOSES GUN AND GAME. 

 Arnold men, Arthur Straw,  Charles Bacon, and Charles wheat pleaded guilty at the Nottingham Shire Hall to-day to an offence under the Poaching Prevention Act. The police met the defendants on the highway at Arnold. They were in a cart, going from Calverton towards Nottingham . On searching the cart they found two guns, four hares, three partridges, and a  rabbit, freshly killed Straw in asking the bench for leniency said,

“i am out of work, but if you put a nice little fine on me I will try to pay it, otherwise I shall have to go to the place ontop of the hill. ”
 
Each of the defendents were fined 2 £, the guns and the game being fortfeited. Straw- “ I have three licenses for my gun, what use is license without a gun.” The conundrum went unanswered

  Monday 24 October 1910
  Nottingham Journal
  Nottinghamshire 

 CRUETY TO A DOG FOX
 NOTTINGHAM MAN FINED TWENTY SHILLINGS. Arthur Straw, of 1, Pump-street, was convicted at the Nottingham Guildhall Saturday of cruelty to a dog fox in Gedling-street on Friday.  W. Lucas, who prosecuted, said Straw was seen in Gedling-street. He had a dog fox
 
Saturday 17 July 1920
  Nottingham Evening Post
 Nottinghamshire 

AN INTERESTING POINT
  NOTTM. POACHERS’ HAUL OF RABBITS.
At the Shire Hall to-day interesting point of law was raised on Saturday when George Smith, 24, Pierrepont street : Arthur Straw, of no fixed abode; Jos. Wiltshire, 6 Gedling street; and Richard Whitchurch, Red Lion-street, all Nottingham labourers, were charged under the Poaching Prevention Act with being suspected to having been on land in pursuit of game
 

  Saturday 10 September 1904
 Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire 

NIGHT POACHING AT GEDLING
 At the Shire Hall, before Mr. A. J. Martin, Major Tennant, Mr. J. Builoct, and Mr. J. R. Anderson, labourer, named Thomas Peacock, Sneinton, was charged with night poaching   
 
  Thursday 04 July 1907
  Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire 

THIS DAY’S POLICE NEWS
  Poachers.— Thomas Peacock and Edward Birch, labourers, Nottingham, two well-known poachers were charged with night poaching, at Holme Pierrepont


This is the  John James Bacon of Lucknow street on the old Market area before the demolition, he is related to the Woodwards, you said i think that there was Woodwards who lived on Lucknow street

Thursday 28 July 1910
  Nottingham Evening Post
Nottinghamshire
   
John James Bacon, hawker, of 21, Lucknow street, Southwell-road, Nottingham, was brought before the magistrates at the Petty Sessions, Bingham, this morning. He had given the name of John Upham, hawker, Mansfield, but was traced   

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Just a few of the Josephs, i do not know if they are all from the Wilshers, i just try and find things, i will write one more letter to you then i will go through all the stories i have found and put everything on for you, then i will not be talking to you no more, if you have any conclusions or an end story of sorts will you write it up before i go, it will take me a while to try and find and write about the things i have found, i do not know if everything will be right, i just find things that sound about right, i do not rearly know anything about genealogy, i just get lucky somtimes becourse i put the work in, so i will write one more time to you then i will not be talking no more, like i say these are just a few of the things i have found


 Friday 06 August 1897
  Lincolnshire Chronicle
  Lincolnshire 
 
  Kelham —Cruelty to a Pony.— Lydia Wiltshire, Priory-road, Newark, hawker, was charged with having on July 22nd cruelly tortured a animal by working it whilst in an unfit state in the parish of Kelham. and Joe. Wiltshire,  her brother was charged with allowing the animal to be so worked. Both defendants  was charged with allowing the animal to be so worked. Both defendants pleaded not guilty. -Wm. Harbord, inspector of the R.S.P.C. A., said be was on duty near the Cattle Market, Newark, when be saw the defendant driving a chestnut pony which was very lame. He stopped it, and asked the woman how long it had been lame. She said ever since they had it, about three months. The lameness in his opinion  was of old standing, and he had the pony taken out and walked gently home. He saw the male defendant, who told him the pony was foaled like it. Mr. Ed. Harry Ward, veterinary surgeon, said he examined the gelding. He found it very lame on the off foreleg from a contracted tendon, which caused the fetlock joint to knuckle over, and there was an enlargement of the coronary band. The animal was totally unfit for any kind of work.—By defendant: Was not the pony in a good condition ?—Mr. Ward :It was.—Defendant said the pony was well cared for, and had done well —The Bench fined both defendants 5s., and costs, or seven days’ with hard labour.


Saturday 13 May 1848
 Sheffield Independent
  Yorkshire

LOCAL INTELLIGENCE
 
On Thursday forenoon, Joseph Badger, Esq., deputy coroner, held an inquest at the Black Boy, Bailey lane, on the body of the infant son of Joseph Wiltshire, chair bottom maker, Bailey lane. It appeared that the child had been subject to fits, but, on Tuesday evening, it had appeared unwell. When its mother awoke on Wednesday morning, it was found to be in a fit, and almost immediately died. — Natural death.
 

Thursday 02 August 1849
 Nottinghamshire Guardian
  Nottinghamshire 

LOCAL INTELLIGENCE
 
Town Hall East Retford, July 28. — (Before the Rev. E. H. Dawkins, C. W. Hudson, W.B. Simpson, and Fairfax Fearnley, Esqrs. )— Joseph Wilshire was summoned for riding in a cart on the turnpike road without reins — dismissed, being a charge on the wrong person.
 

Saturday 21 October 1843
 Sheffield Independent
  Yorkshire 

. MARRIAGES. 
 Rotherham  On Monday, Mr Joseph Wiltshire, chair maker, to Miss Mary White 
 

  Tuesday 13 October 1908
  Derbyshire Courier
  Derbyshire

POLICE COURT ITEMS

At the Chesterfield County Police (second court), the presiding magistrates were Mr H Westlake and Mr Wigglesworth. Joseph Willshire was ordered to pay the costs for allowing eight horses to stray on the Mansfield road. Hillstown, on the 4inst.—P.c Ginnever proved the case

[Patricia Moorhouse]

Fred Ballington had three children in the 1930s when Harriet was still married to Oliver Paddock. Only one of these children seems to have kept the Ballington name, Ernest. Whether he married or not I don't know. I didn't realise that Fred was in trouble with the police knowing what i do about the Ballington family. This is the first time I have ever seen anything about him Is there anyone else who would know anything about him? 

[skyshot1990]

Fred Ballington had three children in the 1930s when Harriet was still married to Oliver Paddock. Only one of these children seems to have kept the Ballington name, Ernest. Whether he married or not I don't know. I didn't realise that Fred was in trouble with the police knowing what i do about the Ballington family. This is the first time I have ever seen anything about him Is there anyone else who would know anything about him?

Hi,

By chance was you the kind person who mailed me copies of the marriage certificates, being on ancestry?

Also I have not really researched Fred, what I can say is Harriet was closes to all her Wilsher family, so I would believe Fred proably would of mixed a fair bit with them too...

Harriet and her sisters/bothers grow up in caravans and on camp sites... I believe they ended up in Seninton becaues of the market, being street hawkers, barrel boys and market folk.

[Patricia Moorhouse]

Yes it's me. I was just looking at this website and saw mention of Wilshers, and Padocks. Fred Ballington 's name cropped up so thought i would see what came up. There are a lot of newspaper reports on the site. I have had no response from my DNA on Ancestry so thought if I joined another site something else would come up. Fred had a son called Ernest but I can find no trace of him. I thought there might have been something on Ancestry or even this website about Harriet, Oliver and Fred's children. After all, Harriet had six children at least with both of her husbands. Nice that you got back to me, thank you
Patricia.