Need maiden surname of Ann Rees b.abt 1800 possibly in Gower peninsular

[ianocon]

Trying to trace the maternal line of my welsh family
Looking for mother of Ann Rees b. 1824  Llanrhydian Penclawdd who married Watkin Watkin in 1846 Sharon Chapel, Abergavenny. On marriage cert the fathers were John Rees (possibly a metalweigher - indistinct) and John Watkins.
Think I have the father John Rees, probate 1874, Penclawdd age 73 (so b. abt 1800) with Ann Rees widow, so mother was another Ann.
Also John Rees and the mother Ann are in Penclawdd census 1851, 61 and 71. Can't see 41.
If I could find their marriage I could get Ann's maiden name - can anyone help with this?

[osprey]

is this the family you're looking for?

1851 Penclawdd HO107/2465 folio 479 pg 32
John Rees head mar 50 gardener b. Carms, Llanddarog
Anne wife 54
William son 20
Margaret dau 18
Catherine dau 14
John son 10
all born Llanrhidian apart from John

1841 Penclawdd Ho107/1424/14 folio 12a pg 19
John Rees 36 collier
Ann 38
Sarah 14
David 8
William 8
Margaret 6
Catherine 4
John 2
Ann 8 months
Margaret Fender 60 re???ing pauper
all born in county

[ianocon]

1851 family is the one that I believe is my family but I didn’t think that 1841 could be the same family. My Ann Rees born 1824 could have been born before Sarah and left home but there is a baby Ann. Surely they wouldn’t have named a second Ann when first was still alive? 4 of children do match Will, Marg, Cath, John but father is Collier and later a Gardener? If it wasn’t for baby Ann I would have considered them as same family

[osprey]

as there are no relationships given on the 1841, there's nothing to say that 8 month old Ann is the daughter of John & Ann. As for the father's occupation, you said that the marriage cert gave metal weigher so that doesn't match the gardener either.
I'm pretty sure it's the same family as there aren't many Catherine Reeses around and only one in Penclawdd.
I'm not convinced that it's the same family that baptised Ann 22 Nov 1824 and Mary 29 April 1822 in the parish church though. The family from the census baptised some children in the Congregational Church in Three Crosses.
7 January 1830 David & William, twin sons of John Rees of Penclawdd, Copperman, and Ann his wife
7 Jan 1830 Sarah daughter of same couple
same day Jane, "a bastard child nursed by the above John Rees was also baptised"
You can find these baptisms in the Non-conformist and Non-parochial registers available on FamilySearch and Ancestry.
Given the baptism date in 1830, David & William should be more than 8 in 1841.
Perhaps baby Ann in 1841 is another nurse child?

[ianocon]

Thanks for help Osprey.
You have a very possible explanation for young Ann which would remove that barrier to them being the same family
I find the records confusing with the dates all over the place but do agree now they are most likely the same family.
As regards the Parish versus Non Conformist dilemma I think I remember reading that parents did sometimes use the Parish church for baptisms even if they were Non Conformist.  Alternatively the fact that there were several baptisms on the same day. including John, suggests they may have decided to change denomination at some point and decided to baptise some of the later children in the new faith.
As regards the Non Conformism, my Ann (1824) was married to Watkin Watkins in Sharon Chapel a non conformist church in Tredegar and the Watkins seem to have been Parish people so Ann may have been the nonconformist which would fit with your finding.
Three Crosses is very close to Penclawdd so perhaps it was the nearest non conformist church.
Separately Ann 1824 fits with the dates of my Ann - she could well have had a sister Mary and they were of an age to have left home by 1841 census.
PenClawdd was a small place and it seems unlikely there would have been two families with so many similarities, so although it's not iron clad I'm inclined to work on the basis that the families are the same. In which case perhaps I should be looking for the marriage of John and Ann in a Non Conformist church - is that possible?
Regards and thanks again for the help.

[ianocon]

To complicate matters have just found Daniel and William age 30 in 1861 Penclawdd census BUT sons of Evan and Mary Rees of Penclawdd. Dates fit for baptisms but parents don't!

[rosie99]

Isn't Evan another name for John 

[osprey]

Three Crosses not very as the crow flies from Penclawdd but it would be a steep walk of a morning carrying young twins. There would probably have been more places of worship in Penclawdd than in Three Crosses, bigger place, more industry at the time. There was a Congregational Chapel established in 1816, although the one in Three Crosses was older and Welsh speaking. I did notice that in one census the family were living next door to a carrier and wondered if he gave them a lift in his cart. Might explain why 3 children were baptised at one time if they weren't regular worshippers.

I grew up a few miles away and know the steepness of the roads around there.

Evan is translated to John, but not normally used interchangeably.

 

[ianocon]

Does anyone know if Parish Baptisms in Llanrhidian parish or Penclawdd in the 1820 to 1830  era are on line? I'm hoping, if they are, that baptism of Ann Rees in 1824 might mention name of mother and father.
Alternatively if marriages are on line, the marriage of John Rees with an Ann some time before 1824 might give me the mother's name.
Osprey, you seem to have found the Ann baptism of 1824 - how do I get to the church record of that?
Your input on the topography is fascinating - one tends to forget about the difficulty of covering even a few kms in that era.