Catherine Ryan

[heywood]

It is a week or so  since some of the info was posted and I think by gathering it together you can get a picture of the family that is likely to be your family in Manchester.
In reply #28, I said that Daniel Ryan was likely in Manchester before 1841 etc.

[Maiden Stone]

It is a week or so  since some of the info was posted and I think by gathering it together you can get a picture of the family that is likely to be your family in Manchester.
In reply #28, I said that Daniel Ryan was likely in Manchester before 1841 etc.

That's a good idea. It's sensible to take a break and look at what you've got so far. Evaluate each piece of information.
There was harvest failure and distress in Ireland in 1830s, prompting Irish people to look for work in England.

[Bluemoonbaz]

Thanks everyone,  I have taken your advise and spent time trying to see what we have found.
And more to the point how you piece each person to the family , I am seeing how it works ie Catherine Ryan married William mc donald and then Bryan Barlow with 2 children who were then living with one of them in a later census so it all links.

I cannot though work out how you got from Catherine Ryan/father Daniel ryan to the family the excellent roots members linked it to.
What was your thought process and what other factors are taken in to li k the family  ? As we don't have any certificates other than the marriage ones of Catharine Ryan.what made the link , so I can understand how I do this in future searches .
Obviously I don't know cath mmn although a few on ancestry have Daniel with James and Valentine  and the mother as
Catherine Linergan ryan

Massive thanks for everyone's help it's been amazing

[heywood]

Hello again,

I haven’t read back over the two threads but I think the basis of the link is explained and I think it is with regard to Bennett Street where the Ryans are living and the address is given on a marriage certificate. We know that the two marriages show father as Daniel.
This is really putting the details together as a likely scenario rather than definite.
Again, I don’t think there is real evidence re Catherine Linergan. There is one, for example, which has USA ‘evidence’ for a son James who is not connected to the Manchester family.
I would advise reading through the two threads re the Ryans and the censuses.
If you do need further clarification, please come back.
I must add, that is my memory of finding the connections, others may come back with a better reason. 

Heywood

[Maiden Stone]

I agree with everything Heywood had said in reply #53.

Go back over the other thread where you began.
 Follow 1 direct line at a time backwards from your GF and read each post which relates to that line only. Print off the pages if it helps so that you can write comments or questions  and put ticks/crosses/ question-marks/asterisks on them. Take notes.  Don't be distracted by other lines. Consider the evidence and sources for each conclusion. Note down sources for each piece of information which has been verified and databases where each source was located. These sources may include parish registers, BMD indexes, BMD certificates, census and others.  Consider why we were/are unsure of, or rejected some evidence. Some of this unproved evidence you will want to keep on a "possible" list. Some findings were later proved not to fit and can be eliminated from your quest. (However, some people like to keep a separate list of rejected stuff with a comment explaining why it was rejected so as not to waste time if those things pop up again in future.) Familiarise yourself with each database a person took information from. Each has pros & cons.

When you've finished following one line and understand all the workings out, return to the beginning i.e. your GF, and carry out the same procedure for another line. When you've worked through that line on the thread, return to the start and do another line and so on. Then you should see how it all fits together.
Your first thread became very complex. I think I researched only the line which led to Catherine Ryan. Other people contributed information about your GF's other ancestors. It's not surprising you were confused at times. It was a lot to take in.

RootsChat is collaborative. 2,3 or more minds are better than 1. Each mind is different. One person may follow a different route to another. They may consult different sources. A person may have particular strengths or knowledge.
We're a bit like a C.I.D. team. We gather clues.  We follow evidence to wherever it takes us. We may already have a "suspect" but if there's insufficient evidence we may decide to "release" him/her, "bail" them or put them on a list of "persons of interest". 
We may also switch from narrow focus to look at "the bigger picture" in the hope of acquiring useful information. Lateral thinking is a good skill. On occasions it's helpful to backtrack in order to progress.
Family history is good for the brain. 

 

[Maiden Stone]

Re Bluemoonbaz reply #56 & heywood reply #57  identifying Ryan family in Manchester.

There are several pieces of evidence to link them - census 1841 onwards, Manchester Cathedral marriage register, marriage certificate.
It's not necessary to have certificates for every life event. Buy only those which are likely to contain missing information, necessary corroboration or will advance your search. Many things can be deduced & ascertained by consulting & comparing various reputable sources, if they exist.
You were lucky that Catherine Ryan's 1st wedding was in Anglican cathedral and the marriage register was viewable. Had both of her weddings been in R.C. churches you would have had to buy both marriage certificates to verify who she was. (All except 1 marriage certificates I've bought have been for weddings in Catholic churches.)

We also used what's known in genealogy as the FAN search tactic. FAN =  Family, (or it might be Friends, I can't remember),  Associates, Neighbours. I was using the tactic before I knew it had a name and an acronym.  It involves looking at people your person was/may have been in contact with and investigating possible links between them. (Detective work again.) Sometimes you get a result as we appear to have done with the Ryan family. As heywood said, we were "putting the details together as a likely scenario rather than definite". Getting to know the neighbours, in this case browsing a census can be revealing. The Ryan family, like many Irish families in Victorian Manchester, had neighbours in the cellar.
Tracing the Ryan family through census returns we noticed that James named a son Daniel after his own father. There were traditional naming patterns which many parents followed and these may be helpful (or may not). It was customary at that time to name 1st son after paternal GF.