Author Topic: Mackenzie nut cracked: It's not Who they knew but What they knew  (Read 2566 times)

Offline Rena

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Mackenzie nut cracked: It's not Who they knew but What they knew
« on: Monday 06 August 18 04:44 BST (UK) »
I've been hugging myself all weekend wanting to tell the world that I've solved the puzzle of where Kenneth Mackenzie son of my blacksmith gg g/father Donald Mckenzie (b1775-76 in Urray, R&C) raised the money to become a coalmaster.

In the Old Monkland 1841 census, Donald and his sons Kenneth and Duncan were listed as blacksmiths living in Clyde Ironworks.  Older son John Mackenzie was living in Dundyvan Cottage, listed as manager of Dundyvan Ironworks.

By 1851, 31 year old Duncan M'kenzie had moved out of the family home and was listed as the manager of an Iron Foundry at Gartsherrie (owned by J Baird).

It was puzzling to see in the 1861 Census that Kenneth had moved from Clyde Ironworks, Lanarkshire and was living in New Cumnock, Ayrshire and his occupation had changed to Coalmaster of the Bank Coal Company employing several men and boys.   At the time, I didn't realise he owned the coal mining rights and thought he was employed by the estate owner who had coal under his land.  I realised that was a mistake when I eventually found and read the background story on this webpage:-
https://newcumnockhistory.com/2014/11/27/seaforth-house-whats-in-a-name/

There didn't seem to be a newspaper advert asking for a coal master, so how did Ken (and his brother, and partner, John) find out about the coal mine in another county and where/how did they raise the money to buy the rights to mine for coal?

Either Lady Luck was smiling down at me , or maybe my ancestors had a hand in it, but I found mention that J Baird had sent a Mr Duncan M'Kenzie from their Gartsherrie works up to their Muirhead Iron Works, Ayrshire - not far from New Cumnock  Then, lo and behold in the OS, I found that the railway line had been extended and there was an instruction that only Mr Mckenzie could sign for deliveries at the Muirkirk station.

Records Ordnance Survey Name Books Ayrshire OS Name Books, 1855-1857 Ayrshire volume 48 OS1/3/48/87.   GLASGOW AND SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY (Muirkirk Branch)
J Nelson-Station master Muirk. [Muirkirk]
Duncan McKenzie Manager Muirkirk Iron Works
A. Aird Esq. Crossflat
Situation:  030
A branch railway line extending from Auchinleck to Muirkirk, constructed by the Glasgow and South Western Company for the conveyance of passengers, coal and iron ore.

AHA !  Duncan had obviously discussed the pros and cons of organising coal from Lanarkshire up to Ayrshire with his brothers.  He must also have had knowledge that there was an unsuccessful Bank Coal Company at New Cumnock.  I can imagine the conversation - Duncan probably knew the local seam of coal would be suitable for burning in the Muirkirk Iron foundry, but as the previous coalmaster had been unsuccessful, could the coal be extracted profitably.   Judging by the fact that Ken built himself a lovely house (as seen on above webpage) it seems that he could extract coal profitably.
But where did John and Ken get their money from to buy the coal mining rights?

I hadn't really bothered researching John's life.  He was a bachelor and every census until 1881 showed he never moved from Dundyvan Cottage which was reserved for the manager of Dundyvan Ironworks but as I occasionally came upon mention of him I got the impression that he had ambitions in life 'cos I knew he had a partnership in an Iron Merchant business plus he'd gained membership of the Institution of Mechanical Engineers plus the Mining Institute.

As is often the case; I was looking for something else in the Edinburgh Gazette, I didn't find what I was looking for so idly entered other keywords from my family tree to see if anything new came to light.  Before I closed down for the session, it popped into my mind that maybe I might have a bit of luck with John's Dundyvan connection. 

Search:   "Dundyvan"

Oh Joy !!  I found the MONEY.

John had sold his shares in the Iron Merchant Company

Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline a chesters

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Re: Mackenzie nut cracked: It's not Who they knew but What they knew
« Reply #1 on: Monday 06 August 18 05:50 BST (UK) »
Congratulations :D

Finally it all comes together for you.

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Mackenzie nut cracked: It's not Who they knew but What they knew
« Reply #2 on: Monday 06 August 18 11:24 BST (UK) »
Nice sleuthing Rena. "A gaun fit's aye gettin!"  ;D

Skoosh.

Offline Rena

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Re: Mackenzie nut cracked: It's not Who they knew but What they knew
« Reply #3 on: Monday 06 August 18 12:29 BST (UK) »
Thanks a chesters.

These weren't people born with silver spoons in their mouths. If anyone looked at 19th century photos of the old rows of tiny mining cottages that housed large families they'd wonder how on earth it was possible to escape those circumstances.  I kept in mind the pride in my mother's voice when she told me that at 26, dad had been the youngest *mechanical engineer chargehand (assistant foreman) in a factory of hundreds of men - so I believe that's how the M'kenzie brothers got their first chance to shine.  *mechanical engineer = commonly known as "fitters".

Then I noticed that two of the participating owners of Clyde Ironworks had sold their shares and each had set up another iron company which is how John, then Duncan got their chance of management.
 
In the case of brother John having a job and also being a partner of another company, I envisage he either answered an advert worded something like "Gentleman setting up business would like to invite experienced partner to join him in this venture" or John had an acquaintance who needed expertise. . In other words one chap had some money for premises and equipment but didn't have money to pay a wage so was willing to offer a share of the company and also share any annual profits for the other chap's expertise.  I could relate to this because after the war my dad was moved out of the Fitting shop to work as a draughtsman designing earth moving equipment and other engineering shop floor related problems.  He designed a pallet for inhouse use and the order to manufacture them was given to a local engineering company.  The owner of that company asked my dad to join him as a partner.  Dad said he would have accepted but as he had a family and a mortgage to pay it was too much of a risk, especially as men were returning back from the war into civvy street - what if there were no paid jobs to be had if the venture failed?  He'd seen his older brothers join many thousands of others queueing up at the dole office in the slump between the wars so he knew the consequences of not having employment.  I doubt the Mckenzie brothers had such fears during that industrial period when new inventions were appearing and British expertise and products were being sold around the world.

Regards,
Rena - still surrounded by a rosy glow :-)
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke


Offline Rena

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Re: Mackenzie nut cracked: It's not Who they knew but What they knew
« Reply #4 on: Monday 06 August 18 12:45 BST (UK) »
Nice sleuthing Rena. "A gaun fit's aye gettin!"  ;D

Skoosh.

Yes - to whatever you said to me Skoosh  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Darned neat links even if I say so myself - if ever I come back into this world I want to be a forensic scientist looking for clues and solving problems ::)
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Mackenzie nut cracked: It's not Who they knew but What they knew
« Reply #5 on: Monday 06 August 18 16:11 BST (UK) »
Rena,  roughly, seek & ye shall find?  ;D

Skoosh.

Offline Rena

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Re: Mackenzie nut cracked: It's not Who they knew but What they knew
« Reply #6 on: Monday 06 August 18 16:54 BST (UK) »
Rena,  roughly, seek & ye shall find?  ;D

Skoosh.

aha - so nothing to do with fit bar cazy that my dad used to sing  ;D
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Mackenzie nut cracked: It's not Who they knew but What they knew
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 07 August 18 14:31 BST (UK) »
Well done to you!  Great sleuthing.  It is always nice to hear about other people's breakthroughs. :)

I know the feeling.  When I got my biggest breakthrough way back in 2014 - I felt as high as a kite. :).

Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline Rena

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Re: Mackenzie nut cracked: It's not Who they knew but What they knew
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 07 August 18 16:02 BST (UK) »
Thanks River Tyne Lass.

I've been gnawing at my Mackenzie bone for years practically ignoring other lines unless some information happens to cross my path.  I don't know why I have this all consuming urge to trace their foot steps.
I've now traced my father's name Donald M'kenzie back and discovered why his brother's given names were named Kenneth Mckenzie. I told myself that when I'd sorted out where the original boys got their money from I would take the Mackenzie file out of the "Pending" box and file it away - but through the rosy glow, one of the Mackenzie niggles is appearing again....... if I keep busy the niggle might disappear  ;D
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke