Author Topic: William and Sarah then Ann Collins of Tewkesbury  (Read 1125 times)

Offline PAK

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William and Sarah then Ann Collins of Tewkesbury
« on: Monday 13 August 18 00:28 BST (UK) »
I have spent hours flogging through Ancestry and Findmypast at our local library to try to complete dates for these distant relatives. I know that William Brooks Collins (c1819-1878) married Sarah Bray in Q3 of 1843. She was a widow having previously been married to Daniel Bray who died in 1843. I have found them in 1851, with their son (also William Brooks Collins) born Q1, 1845.

That son is found in 1861 living with Ann Collins, who is found with William Collins in subsequent censuses. So I now assume that Sarah died between 1851 and 1861 and William remarried. However, no definite record of either her death or that marriage has yet been found. The most likely death record for Sarah is in Q3 of 1851 in Tewkesbury. But I have checked images for all burials at Tewkesbury St Mary, Holy Trinity and all available parishes within the then Tewkesbury registration district but no other details have been found, not even her age. So I can't be sure it's her.

So I am short of the following :
1) Sarah's death date - or at least proof that the one in 1851 is her.
2) marriage date for William and Ann (assuming they did actually marry). I'm pretty certain she was born Ann Brooks baptised 22.3.1818 in Deerhurst. She married William Knight after William Collins' death in 1878.
3) Ideally the date of Sarah's marriage to Daniel Bray so that I could find her maiden name and hence birth date.

Can anyone help?

Offline Daonnachd

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Re: William and Sarah then Ann Collins of Tewkesbury
« Reply #1 on: Monday 13 August 18 01:34 BST (UK) »
Did Ann and either of her husbands have children? and if so do you know where and when they were born?
If so, for anyone born in England & Wales from 1837 you can look up their register of birth at:

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp 

It will give you the mother's maiden name. You don't have to pay unless you want a copy of the document itself, which would of course be better evidence.

Likewise for Sarah.


Offline jomcd967

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Re: William and Sarah then Ann Collins of Tewkesbury
« Reply #2 on: Monday 13 August 18 05:12 BST (UK) »
Hi Pak,

Do you have the marriage certificate for William and Sarah in 1843? Does it show that she is a widow?

The Sarah Bray listed on the 1841 census in Tewksbury is actually in a separate household to the Daniel Bray listed above.
1841 Lower Lode Gate Tewksbury
Daniel Bray, 30, Litter Carrier, BIC
Martha Bray, 3, BIC
John Bray, 15mths, BIC
Sarah Bray, 20 F.S., BIC

This Daniel is most likely the son of John and Judith, born 1811 and baptised as a Protestant Dissenter.
He married Ann Hall in 1836 and had Martha & John listed above (both have MMN as Hall on the GRO) as well as Elizabeth b.1842  (living with mother Ann in 1851) and sister Sarah Jane in 1835.

So Sarah may be a sister, cousin, sister in law?

Edited; William Brooks b.1845 in Tewksbury has MMN as Bray.

Jo  :)

Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
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Offline jomcd967

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Re: William and Sarah then Ann Collins of Tewkesbury
« Reply #3 on: Monday 13 August 18 05:28 BST (UK) »
The 1851 census of William & Sarah shows a Mary Bray (1805 Tewksbury) sister in law.

This is most likely the Mary Ann b.1804 to John & Judith, sister to Daniel. I can't see a baptism for Sarah but would assume that she is the sister of Daniel and Mary and that her nonconformist baptism is not yet found.

Although there is a Sara Bray, d/o James & Sarah baptised at St James Bristol on 25 Aug 1822, she was more likely the Sarah Bray married in 1841 in Bristol.

Jo  :)
Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
Hudson, Jenner, Dedman - Sussex
Leach, Hopkins, Saunders - Wales
Leach, Lipscombe - Hampshire
Sipthorpe - Lancashire
Walters - Cornawall & Australia
Kingshott, Matheson, Pitt, McDonald, Keogh - Australia.


Offline jomcd967

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Re: William and Sarah then Ann Collins of Tewkesbury
« Reply #4 on: Monday 13 August 18 06:52 BST (UK) »
Sarah Collins, death registered Sept Quarter, 1851, in Tewkesbury, Vol 11, page 326, age 32 (b. 1819).
This fits with your Sarah and it would be worth purchasing the death certificate to confirm that she is the wife of your William (it should state it on the certificate).

Jo  :)
Puplett, Sonnex, Lott, Dunkiss, Hart - London area.
Hudson, Jenner, Dedman - Sussex
Leach, Hopkins, Saunders - Wales
Leach, Lipscombe - Hampshire
Sipthorpe - Lancashire
Walters - Cornawall & Australia
Kingshott, Matheson, Pitt, McDonald, Keogh - Australia.

Offline Capetown

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Re: William and Sarah then Ann Collins of Tewkesbury
« Reply #5 on: Monday 13 August 18 14:16 BST (UK) »
GloucestershireBMD


William Brooks COLLINS married Sarah BRAY, Cheltenham, Tewkesbury, Register Office 1843

Death: 1851, Sarah COLLINS aged 32, 1851, Tewkesbury, Register 6 Entry 237

---





Daniel BRAY married Ann HALL at Tewkesbury - 15 November 1835


1841 Census, Gloucestershire, Tewkesbury
Lower Lode Gate

Daniel BRAY - 30
Martha - 3
John - 15 months
Sarah BRAY - 20 Female  Servant


----

GRO Index & Ancestry

John Henry BRAY - registered J Qtr,  1840 Tewkesbury, mother's maiden name HALL

John Henry BRAY - buried 9 July 1842, residence, Heritage Gate
---
James BRAY - 1841, mother's maiden name: HALL

Buried 17 September 1841 aged 1 month, residence, Church Street


---

Daniel BRAY's Will dated 4 March 1843 - Yeoman of Tewkesbury - leaves everything to his 'Wife" Ann BRAY

and she's here on the 1851 Census, Tewkesbury
High Street

Ann BRAY - Wid - aged 37, Housekeeper
Martha BRAY - 13
Elizabeth BRAY - 8
  - (GRO D Qtr, Tewksbury, Elizabeth BRAY - mother's maiden name: HALL)
William STITCHINS - Visitor

Both Martha and Elizabeth BRAY marriages are on Ancestry (1860 - St Mary's Tewkesbury) - father Daniel BRAY, Millwright

--
Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire Marriage Allegations etc

3 January 1803 at Tewkesbury, by Licence


John BRAY, over 21, Batchelor, occupation: Millwright

Judith MEW, over 21

(Public Members' Tree on Ancestry for John BRAY and Judith MEW)


---


1841 census, Tewkesbury

BRAY
Judath - 65
James - 30
Philip - 25
Lydia B - 20

I've googled John BRAY, Millwright, Tewkesbury and on British Genealogy there is a forum and one Contributor states

'I have copy birth certificate of John Henry BRAY - born 8 March 1840 at Providence Place, Tewkesbury, parents: Daniel (Millwright) and Ann BRAY, formerly HALL, registered 4 April 1840'



---


1861 Census, Tewkesbury

Ann COLLINS - 42 - born Deerhurst
William COLLINS - son 16 - born Tewkesbury
Frederick - 4 -
(GRO - Frederick COLLINS, 1856, S Qtr Tewkesbury, mother's maiden name BROOKES)

Ellen Mary - 2
(GRO - Ellen Mary - again - mother's maiden name BROOKES)

Offline PAK

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Re: William and Sarah then Ann Collins of Tewkesbury
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 14 August 18 22:40 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for the helpful replies. In particular to Lindsey C, who has helped me to identify that Sarah was 32 when she died so confirming that this one is mine - and also opened up a new avenue of research material for me by referring to the GRO site.

Jo asked if I have (or have seen) a marriage certificate showing that Sarah was a widow when she married in 1843. Well I thought I had! I have a note saying she was a widow but didn’t note the source and now I can’t find anything other than the index entry. So now I am thinking that was an error on my part and she was in fact Daniel’s sister, living with him and his two children in 1841, their mother Ann presumably recorded elsewhere as she was with them in 1851. As the Bray family were nonconformist I guess that may be why I can’t find a marriage record showing details. But anyway I don't think I need any more info on the Brays now - unless anyone has found Sarah's birth / baptism date, which seems unlikely.

This just leaves the marriage (if any) of William Collins to Ann probably nee Brooks (and later Knight). This will be at some time between 1851 and 1861 so if anyone can help with that, it would be appreciated. Maybe that was nonconformist too? But 2 out of 3 ain't bad!