Author Topic: Help Needed To Understand 'Marriage Locator' Website  (Read 1381 times)

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Help Needed To Understand 'Marriage Locator' Website
« Reply #9 on: Monday 13 August 18 12:28 BST (UK) »
The Marriage Locator was mentioned in this post http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=725641.0 July 2015.

Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline dawnsh

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Re: Help Needed To Understand 'Marriage Locator' Website
« Reply #10 on: Monday 13 August 18 17:30 BST (UK) »
It's quite complicated to explain how it works but you can see the workings if you have access to Ancestry who have transcribed and put parish register images online.

When civil registration started in 1837, all the Anglican churches in a particular registration district were put into alphabetical order and the indexes were compiled in that order.

Complications arise as parishes got bigger an new churches were consecrated.

Over the years the parish lists has in places changed it's order.

If you want to have a go yourself, find a county that is online at Ancestry ( I would suggest London & Middlesex as the registers are online and the marriage locator had a London focus when it was first started)

Select an early year and quarter on freebmd and then chose a registration district.

Dec 1837 Brentford is a good one.

Run the search and then copy and paste the results into an excel spreadsheet.

Use the spreadsheet to sort the list into page number order.

When you look at the results you should get 4 results per page number, not necessarily in the correct bridge and groom order.

Use Ancestry to search for the marriage by either name and year then look at the parish register image for that page and note who married who.

The page numbers become the cardinal points, where the first and last numbers in the quarter determine how the marriage locator works.

The page numbers will run sequentially, each new parish will start with an odd number.

Sometimes you get 2 numbers only. That could mean the other marriages on the page of the register fall into the next quarter.

If you see numbers that jump from 3 to 5 then that suggests a parish change.

You will also be able to work out where freebmd transcriptions are wrong either by transcriber or GRO compiler. You will also see the task involved for the GRO compiling the indexes, transcribing the parish register entries and trying to read the handwriting.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea

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Offline StevieSteve

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Re: Help Needed To Understand 'Marriage Locator' Website
« Reply #11 on: Monday 13 August 18 17:46 BST (UK) »


Where it says the reference is unknown but between parish A and parish B, I roughly understand it to mean that the marriage took place somewhere other than a C of E church, probably in the vicinity of parish A

I think it's actually a parish alphabetically in the vicinity of A & B


So if A is known to be say Derby St Margarets and B is known to be Derby St Michael then a parish between A & B could be Derby St Marks or Derby St Marys, it's just that their exact range as detailed by Dawn above isn't known



Middlesex: KING,  MUMFORD, COOK, ROUSE, GOODALL, BROWN
Oxford: MATTHEWS, MOSS
Kent: SPOONER, THOMAS, KILLICK, COLLINS
Cambs: PRIGG, LEACH
Hants: FOSTER
Montgomery: BREES
Surrey: REEVE

Online River Tyne Lass

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Re: Help Needed To Understand 'Marriage Locator' Website
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 14 August 18 08:26 BST (UK) »
Thanks to all for the offered explanations.  I am still not totally clear though on when two Churches or record offices are mentioned.  It could just be me,  en route from nightshift so brain tired probably not fully in gear.

I will give these two examples which I have searched for (two ancestors' marriages:the

1902 quarter 2 10b 254a
..  message states that this entry is located between entries for Newcastle St Peter and Blyth St Cuthbert

1874 quarter 4 10b 212
.. message states that this entry is located between entries for Elswick St Philip and Newcastle RO

There doesn't seem to be an alphabetical link. ???

I have had several successes in pinning down just one Church in the Newcastle upon Tyne registration district.  These include marriages which took place at the churches of All Saints, Byker, St Michael & St Lawrence; Benwell, St James; St Nicholas Cathedral and St John the Baptist.

One of the marriages is that of my Grandfather's brother.  I have been dabbling for a while here and there looking for his marriage without success - but now I am very pleased to find just the one Church pin-pointed.

I presume the 'volunteers' who carry out this work will be the Guild members?



Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline StevieSteve

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Re: Help Needed To Understand 'Marriage Locator' Website
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 14 August 18 08:52 BST (UK) »
This is a guess...

Maybe the Newcastle churches are listed first and then it moves on to parishes starting A, B, C etc, then to the RC, Non-Conformist, Jewish and Registry Office

So in your first example it could be a Newcastle "St" church beginning with a name after Peter or a church in a parish beginning with A or B

In the second it could be quite a list for a parish beginning with E to Z e.g. Fenham, Heaton, Jesmond etc

As I say, guess only
 
Middlesex: KING,  MUMFORD, COOK, ROUSE, GOODALL, BROWN
Oxford: MATTHEWS, MOSS
Kent: SPOONER, THOMAS, KILLICK, COLLINS
Cambs: PRIGG, LEACH
Hants: FOSTER
Montgomery: BREES
Surrey: REEVE

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Re: Help Needed To Understand 'Marriage Locator' Website
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 14 August 18 09:08 BST (UK) »
Thanks Steve for trying to help with your guesses.  Both ancestors in the marriage examples were C of E and on my Mother's side of the family.

I think perhaps I could email the Guild.  Hopefully they might be able to clarify these messages.  If they can I will let you all know on here what they say.
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

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Re: Help Needed To Understand 'Marriage Locator' Website
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 14 August 18 21:15 BST (UK) »
Hi Steve,

I think your guesses are plausible.  I have just now sent off an email to the Guild.  I am hoping they will let me know soon what is meant when two Churches are named, as in my examples above.

I will post on what they tell me in any reply I receive as it may be helpful to other RootsChatters to understand more about the process too.
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Online Sloe Gin

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Re: Help Needed To Understand 'Marriage Locator' Website
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 14 August 18 22:13 BST (UK) »
Rootschatter Brummygirl was working on this idea for Birmingham way back in 2010.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=448776.msg3109708#msg3109708

I wonder how far she's got?

http://www.ancestorsofbirmingham.com/gro_index.htm
UK census content is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk  Transcriptions are my own.

Offline dawnsh

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Re: Help Needed To Understand 'Marriage Locator' Website
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 14 August 18 22:43 BST (UK) »
The order is Anglican, Jewish, Quaker, (or Quaker, Jewish) registrar attended (for other denominations and RC) and then register office.

I extracted Dec 1/4 1874 and put the names and numbers into a spreadsheet and then sorted by page number. The range runs from 1-328

Like many databases, the GOONS marriage locator is a volunteer project and I suggest it is far from complete.

From the sorted data the sequence for 1874 runs

Benwell St James
Byker St Anthony
Byker St Michael
Elswick St Stephen
Elswick St Paul
Jesmond Clayton
N/C All Saints
N/C St Andrew
N/C St Ann
N/C Christchurch
N/C St John Baptist
N/C St John
N/C St Nicholas cathedral
N/C St Peter
Elswick St Phillip

The 1868 National Gazetteer on Genuki (http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/NBL/Newcastle/Gaz1868) lists the churches at that time as

"nine churches, besides numerous chapels. The livings are, St. Nicholas, St. Andrew's, St. John the Baptist's, All Saints', St. Peter's, St. Ann's, also St. Paul's and the new church at Byker, St. Thomas's, and St. Mary the Virgin's, in the corporation of Newcastle. "

plus townships in  the townships of Byker, Elswick, Heaton, Jesmond, and Westgate which would also have had churches.

"The Roman Catholics have a church dedicated to St. Mary, which was erected in 1843. There are besides about 30 places of worship belonging to Dissenting congregations, including Wesleyan, Association, Primitive and New Connexion Methodists, Independents, Baptists, English, Scotch, United and Reformed Presbyterians, Scotch Kirk, Free Church, Unitarians, Glassites, Society of Friends, Swedenborgians, and Jews.

Referring back to the list of parishes in sequence, it is not complete.

Without someone going through all the registers at the register office and noting where the quarters start and stop, this will always be a work in progress.

It may be easier to work through the Anglican registers deposited at the archives but those of the Society of Friends, the Jewish records from the Synagogue and the registers from the register office may never be included.

Without further data, my Anglican list stops at page 185. That's not to say though that there aren't Anglican marriages after this number, I just don't have the records online to check.

At this time, the only way to know where the marriage took place is to order the cert.

It's a shame that marriage registers will not form part of the new GRO Index project as we now have with births and deaths.

If you can get hold of a copy, Michael Whitfield Foster's Comedy of Errors, it will prove most enlightening as to how the indexes were historically compiled and the errors and omissions caused as a result of late submissions by the Anglican clergy and the problems of reading their handwriting added to a very manual and labour-intensive system of indexing in pre-computer days.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea