Author Topic: Parentage problems!  (Read 5358 times)

Offline itsrobert

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Parentage problems!
« on: Saturday 18 August 18 11:57 BST (UK) »
I have come across a bit of a puzzle re: the parentage of a person I am researching. Forgive me, but I am going to anonymise as much as I can.

The problem starts with the birth of a child, John, into a poor family in an urban area shortly before 1900. He was born on 5th August and was registered under his mother's surname with no father listed on the birth certificate. On the certificate, his mother's name is Amelia and she was unmarried at the time. She married about six months later and John lived with this family during his formative years, even stating Amelia's husband as his father when he got married. During some early censuses, he has two surnames - his mother's and his "father's". Eventually he only used his "father's" name.

That was all quite logical - I assumed that Amelia had had John with the man she married but as they weren't legally married at the time of his birth, his father's name couldn't be entered onto the birth certificate.

The problem came when I tracked down John's baptism record in the Catholic church. The baptism entry is the correct one - his date of birth is consistent with his birth certificate (5th August) - and the godmother is Mary Jane who is Amelia's twin sister. John was baptised on 22nd August. No father is listed here - as to be expected - but the strange thing is that his mother is "Helenae", Latin for Helen - not Amelia, as I was expecting.

The curious thing is - Amelia had a younger sister called Ellen! The problem is that if Ellen was indeed John's mother - she would only have been about 12 years old when he was born!

So the question is - do you think it would have been possible for a 12 year old to have carried a child? And that in between baptism and the registration of his birth (much later on 16th September), Amelia decided to raise John as her own? And that when she married, John took his name instead? I should point out here that on the first census John appears on, he is listed under his maternal grandfather (with both surnames!) as "grandson" - despite the fact that Amelia, her husband and two legitimate children were also living in the same house, but they were listed separately as another family unit. John is not listed as being in their "household". The other anecdotal evidence for this would be that I have been told that John never got on well with his "family" and nothing much has ever been spoken about with regards to his relatives.

Or - could I be blowing this all out of proportion and it's simply a case of some priest writing the wrong name in the baptism register?

I would be very grateful if I could benefit from your collective wisdom on this one! Which scenario do you think is possible/probable? Will I ever get a definitive answer?

Many thanks.

Online Girl Guide

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Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 18 August 18 12:18 BST (UK) »
Slightly sidetracking here - when Amelia married was it a Roman Catholic marriage or a Church of England etc one?

What proof do you have that Amelia's family were Roman Catholic?

Helenae is usually the Latin form of Helen.  I can't see any suggestion that it would be Ellen, but I may be wrong.

12 is young to have a child but not impossible.

By giving no names Rootschatters will not be able to assist by double checking your research for you.  It means that you are relying solely on your own research which is fine.  Not everyone wishes to provide names.

No doubt other Rootschatters will be along to give their opinions.
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Offline itsrobert

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Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 18 August 18 12:30 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your reply.

Amelia and her family were definitely Roman Catholic. She was baptised and married in the Catholic Church too.

I am pretty certain that Helenae is Latin for Ellen and Helen (both names are related anyway). I’ve seen a lot of Catholic registers and another Catholic Ellen in my family was always written as Helenae in Latin, and in the same church too!

I am a bit concerned about providing surnames as it is a bit close to home!

The question really hinges on whether someone could get pregnant at 11 years old. Otherwise it could simply be a mistake in the baptism register?

Online rosie99

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Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 18 August 18 12:37 BST (UK) »
The question really hinges on whether someone could get pregnant at 11 years old. Otherwise it could simply be a mistake in the baptism register?

Yes they could get pregnant at 11 but I don't think you should assume that she did
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Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 18 August 18 12:39 BST (UK) »
Anything is possible in family history Robert.

If a girl has already started periods at 11 then yes, quite possible to get pregnant.  You have to ask yourself if Ellen was in any position to get pregnant.

It may well be that the priest made a mistake when filling in the mother's name in the register.  Was there any other baptism on the same page that had a Helenae for a mother?

Amelia's name wasn't written down by another child's name?

If you are sure of all your other facts, then the Helenae name could be regarded as a mistake by the priest when he wrote the details in the register.
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England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline groom

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Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 18 August 18 12:41 BST (UK) »
Quote
The question really hinges on whether someone could get pregnant at 11 years old. Otherwise it could simply be a mistake in the baptism register?

Depends how mature the girl was. A woman can get pregnant and have a baby as soon as she begins ovulating, or producing eggs. This typically occurs about a year after they first begin menstruating. I would think even if an 11 year old did get pregnant, the chances of her carrying the baby to full term and both surviving the birth would be fairly slim in 1900.
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Offline Ruskie

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Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 18 August 18 12:41 BST (UK) »
Yes, a girl could have a baby at 12 years old, but it is unusual.

Have you looked at the original baptismal record or is the information from a transcript? If you have seen the original is the writing clear and is there any possibility of the name Helenae belonging to an adjoining entry? (I have seen this happen before)

I would tend to agree that it is more likely for there to be an error on the register than for a 12 year old to have a child, farm him off to a sister, and for that child to then take the sister's husband's surname. Nothing is impossible, but it is all a bit convoluted.

Do you know what happened to the sister Ellen?

If these events occurred before 1900 then all those involved will be long deceased and I'm sure you will get more help if you are willing to provide the names.


Offline itsrobert

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Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 18 August 18 12:52 BST (UK) »
Thanks everyone. I have seen the baptism register in person. The writing is very clear and confident and states Helenae as the mother. His was the only baptism that day and no other Amelia’s or Helen’s appear on the page. This is looking very much like a riddle I will never solve!

Online AntonyMMM

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Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 18 August 18 12:56 BST (UK) »
On a topical note, Aretha Franklin had her first child at the age of 12