Author Topic: Parentage problems!  (Read 2018 times)

Offline itsrobert

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #54 on: Sunday 19 August 18 12:37 BST (UK) »
It's not something I have ever researched (though plenty of others have and will be able to point you in the right direction).

Maybe try a google of the county or parish and see if anything comes up?

Some general information here though there will be tons more on the internet:

https://www.genguide.co.uk/source/bastardy-documents-parish-poor-law/140/

Thanks - I think I will contact a researcher at the local record office to see if any further light can be shed.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Sloe Gin

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,925
    • View Profile
Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #55 on: Sunday 19 August 18 12:42 BST (UK) »
Sorry, I neglected to mention that there was another sister, Ann, who had married well before John was born. So I think the question is regarding why Ann didn't raise the baby (or their mother)? Why would Amelia have stepped forward if she wasn't the actual mother?

Perhaps Ann's husband was unwilling to take on someone else's child.  Not sure about the grandparents - age or health issues perhaps.

Quote
One thing regarding Amela's husband - he is not to be found in the local area in the census before John is born. The closest I can find is that he is at an army barracks. This could make sense because I know his brother was also in the army at this time and actually died in South Africa during the Boer War. So I guess that could explain why his marriage to Amelia was delayed after John's birth. Maybe he was away in the army at the time?

It could also explain why he wasn't named as the father at the registration, as he may have been unable to attend.  I suppose that could be the reason for the long delay in registration;  they may have been hoping that he could come home in time.
UK census content is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk  Transcriptions are my own.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 27,881
    • View Profile
Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #56 on: Sunday 19 August 18 12:45 BST (UK) »
I wonder if Amelias husband was Johns father.  Who was he named after  :-\

She had other sons named after her husband, her father and father in law
Well that's the strange thing, there was the odd John here and there in the family but most of them died as infants. There weren't any notable John's kicking about.

John is possibly the first name of his father then  :-\
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Gan Yam

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Going Home - exploring my past
    • View Profile
Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #57 on: Sunday 19 August 18 12:48 BST (UK) »
Ellen was well under the age of consent and the penalties when the child was under 13 were higher. 

From my perspective: would you not be angry that your just turned 11 year old was pregnant?  Would not want to seek redress? Trying to conceal who the mother was could lead to difficult questions about why you would want to do that!
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Sloe Gin

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,925
    • View Profile
Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #58 on: Sunday 19 August 18 13:14 BST (UK) »
I had a look into school records but unfortunately it seems that the local record office doesn't hold them. Not sure where they would be now after over 100 years!

The answer will probably be no, but does the local school from that time still exist?  If by any chance it does, they may still have their old registers.
UK census content is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk  Transcriptions are my own.

Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 27,881
    • View Profile
Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #59 on: Sunday 19 August 18 13:17 BST (UK) »
There is also a good chance that his father will be named as Amelias husband - he was known by that surname in 1901 before he went to school
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online mazi

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,480
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #60 on: Sunday 19 August 18 13:40 BST (UK) »
Both myself and my wife spent our early working years at the heart of a catholic community in a very similar city, myself as a colleague, my wife as “them” that is she worked for the local authority.

The one thing that stood out was, despite life’s problems, the local priest was the law, I think, especially as Robert has commented on the church being close at hand that the priest knew full well who was the mother, and probably who the father was.

Amelia was told by the matriarch of the extended family Go and register the birth and she did just that.

It was the norm then for older sisters to look after the young ones, maybe she formed an attachment to the baby and that is why John ended up with her,

One thing is certain, we are not going to find the father :)

Mike

Online andrewalston

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,975
  • My granddad
    • View Profile
Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #61 on: Sunday 19 August 18 17:03 BST (UK) »
Presumably you have checked for any bastardy documents for John?  :-\
It's extremely unlikely that there would be any record. It would be the Parish who would initiate court proceedings to recover any money they had spent supporting the unmarried mother and the child.

In this case, there was a support network in place - Amelia and her parents, soon joined by Amelia's husband.
 
Looking at ALSTON in south Ribble area, ALSTEAD and DONBAVAND/DUNBABIN etc. everywhere, HOWCROFT and MARSH in Bolton and Westhoughton, PICKERING in the Whitehaven area.

Census information is Crown Copyright. See www.nationalarchives.gov.uk for details.

Offline Melbell

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 389
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Parentage problems!
« Reply #62 on: Sunday 19 August 18 18:46 BST (UK) »
Did you know that the names Amelia and Ellen/Helen are considered to be 'the same' or used for the same person sometimes?

Melbell