Author Topic: Michael Donovan Marriage Info  (Read 2121 times)

Offline M S Harmer

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Re: Michael Donovan Marriage Info
« Reply #18 on: Monday 03 September 18 08:14 BST (UK) »
Jhn Donovan was born abt 1873 Co Cork, father was Michael Donovan publicans Co Cork. Parents put him in monastery ? to be trained as a priest but ran away an became a merchant seaman, he eventually deserted ship in Pt Pirie abt 1894. A retraction of his desertion was posted in 1911 from the SS Bradford City
Ward, Kempson, Donovan, Kiesler, Sutherland, Anesbury, Haines, Crowle, Smith, Benfold, Binstead, Bairstow, Tullock, Wallace, Wood, Oakland, Parker, Payne, Stokes, Botten, Stacy, Brooks, Harmer

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Offline majm

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Re: Michael Donovan Marriage Info
« Reply #19 on: Monday 03 September 18 11:07 BST (UK) »
Jhn Donovan was born abt 1873 Co Cork, father was Michael Donovan publicans Co Cork. Parents put him in monastery ? to be trained as a priest but ran away an became a merchant seaman, he eventually deserted ship in Pt Pirie abt 1894. A retraction of his desertion was posted in 1911 from the SS Bradford City

Very interesting Martin and without supporting info, it is speculative.    You may find you need to substantiate/validate each of those statements so that your quest to find out about your Michael Donovan can be effectively helped by the many experienced RChatters.

I will ask the direct questions,  I don't need an answer, but I hope it will help you confirm/validate your current research: 

 :) How have you eliminated the couple who married in South Australia in 1879 ... Michael Donovan and Margaret McNamara ... ?     Have you obtained copy of that registration? Who were the witnesses? 

 :) How have you established that the lad (John, son of Michael and Margaret Donovan - she nee McNamara) who was put into a monastery in Ireland was not actually a Catholic .... assuming of course that you can already prove a) he was born in Co Cork, Ireland and b) he had been placed in a monastery  ...

 :) What's this about the SS Bradford City and 1911 and rescinding his desertion circa 1894ish at Port Pirie, South Australia ... from said vessel?  Have you checked when that ship was actually launched and when it was first in Australian Waters ? ...
 
http://passengersinhistory.sa.gov.au/node/921565

JM

 

 

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Offline majm

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Offline M S Harmer

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Re: Michael Donovan Marriage Info
« Reply #21 on: Monday 03 September 18 12:08 BST (UK) »
Firstly as far back as I can remember my grandmother would tell us about her father John Donovan and where he came from as well as his parents being publicans. Secondly S.A. register have records of John and Elizabeth's marriage which gives his father's name as  Michael as well as their 3 daughters. John's name is on a list of deserters, which ship we are not sure of, the retraction was made by the SS Bradford City (built 1903) 1911. I also understand Irish research can be difficult due to the lack of records. Macnamara should not even get a look in.
Ward, Kempson, Donovan, Kiesler, Sutherland, Anesbury, Haines, Crowle, Smith, Benfold, Binstead, Bairstow, Tullock, Wallace, Wood, Oakland, Parker, Payne, Stokes, Botten, Stacy, Brooks, Harmer

Offline majm

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Re: Michael Donovan Marriage Info
« Reply #22 on: Monday 03 September 18 12:40 BST (UK) »
And don't forget that John DONOVAN was, in September 1910, noted as an Englishman.

Mr.Donovan was an Englishman by birth, had followed the sea as a vocation for some time, and a little over 20 years ago came to Port Pirie, where, except for a short while now and again, he continued to work on the wharfs, first as a labourer and then as foreman stevedore. Of late
years he had been largely employed by the Spencer Gulf Stevedoring Company.


I posted the link to the full Obit earlier in this thread.

Someone jumping ship at Port Pirie is unlikely to have continued to work on the wharves at Port Pirie .... 

ADD  ... here, to save anyone else scrolling back
May I offer the following newspaper cuttting, showing Jack DONOVAN was 38 years of age when he died in Sept 1910 in South Australia. I note he was described as an Englishman.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/95241468 Port Pirie Recorder, 17 Sept 1910.

The only extra info we now is once deserting ship in Port Pirie Sth Australia about 1894 he married my g grandmother Elizabeth Ann Brooks 12 Feb 1895. He died 12 Sept 1910 aged 38. The oral history about parents being publicans and his father marring twice came from him. As far as we know he was not cathlic.

JM


JM
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Offline majm

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Re: Michael Donovan Marriage Info
« Reply #23 on: Monday 03 September 18 13:03 BST (UK) »
Re John as English

13 Aug 1877, Carrie DONOVAN, admitted to Globe Road School, Town Hamlets, London, born 11 November 1871, with father as  Michael DONOVAN, 6 Ernest Place

Same date of admission as Carrie, there’s a John DONOVAN, admitted to same school, born 23 August 1873, with same father as Carrie.

I have not looked for their discharge, nor for their births, nor sightings of them on 1881 Census.

JM
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Offline M S Harmer

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Re: Michael Donovan Marriage Info
« Reply #24 on: Monday 03 September 18 14:14 BST (UK) »
You are not telling me anything I don't already know. An English by birth can be used by anyone born either England, Ireland or Scotland ect in this country. >:(
Ward, Kempson, Donovan, Kiesler, Sutherland, Anesbury, Haines, Crowle, Smith, Benfold, Binstead, Bairstow, Tullock, Wallace, Wood, Oakland, Parker, Payne, Stokes, Botten, Stacy, Brooks, Harmer

Offline majm

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Re: Michael Donovan Marriage Info
« Reply #25 on: Monday 03 September 18 14:25 BST (UK) »
You are not telling me anything I don't already know. An English by birth can be used by anyone born either England, Ireland or Scotland ect in this country. >:(

Martin,  I am in New South Wales, Australia, and I assure you that an Englishman even in 1910 was NOT an Irishman, nor a Scotsman, nor a Welshman.  Over 25% of those alive in Australia in that era were born overseas, and the 1911 census separated them into:
England
Wales
Scotland
Ireland
Isle of Man
and many other nations too  :)

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/2112.01911?OpenDocument


JM
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Offline majm

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Re: Michael Donovan Marriage Info
« Reply #26 on: Monday 03 September 18 14:36 BST (UK) »
A good test

Trove

use keyword Englishman and the year 1910,  - and there's 1418 instances of that use
use keyword Scotchman and the year 1910, - well there's 424 instances of that use
use keyword Scotsman and the year 1910, - wouldn't you know it, 301 instances of that use
use keyword Irishman and the year 1910, -  agh ... so there's 884 instances of that use
use keyword Welshman and the year 1910, - wow ... and there's 124 instances of that use.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/?q=

JM
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Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk