Where were John and Sarah Holme after 1861?

[Speedwell]

I've been puzzling over this one for a while.
John Hulme (sometimes called Holme) married Sarah Challenor 18/4/1847 in Liverpool.
He was from Leek, Staffordshire. She was from Wrexham, Denbighshire.
In the 1861 Census, they appeared at 45 Gomer Street, Liverpool (as Holme). They had 3 daughters Emma, Constance (my great grandmother) and Catherine Elizabeth.

Children of John Hulme (labourer) & Sarah, baptised at Gresford, Denbigh:
Emma, 10 Sep 1848 (abode Gwersyllt)
Constance, 6 May 1850 (abode Gwersyllt)
Catharine Elizabeth, 4 April 1852 (abode New Inn)

John Hulme is mentioned at his daughter's marriage
Marriage, Wrexham Parish Church, 7 October 1871
Andrew Gwynne (full age) boiler maker of South Sea.  Father: Andrew Gwynne, shoe maker.
Catherine Elizabeth Hulme (minor) of South Sea.  Father: John Hulme, joiner.
Witnesses: Edward George & Constance Sarah George (my great grandparents)

All wonderful but where did John & Sarah go? I can't find them in any census from 1871 on. There are other couples with the same name but the details - children, occupation, birthplaces etc don't fit.

Any ideas?

PS I've already had help months ago with this one when I had the wrong Hulme but now I've returned to this part of the family tree, I'm stuck again.

PPS Please note I live in Australia so my responses to any questions may be delayed.

[heywood]

Hello,
Where were they in 1871?

A parent on a marriage certificate could still be deceased but not recorded as such.
Have you traced the other daughters?

Regards
Heywood

[Willow 4873]

Morning

There is one who is a possible for John on the 1881

Northern Hospital 12 Great Howard Street Liverpool
John Huerne aged 69 Labourer born Leek (listed as married and a patient) - you didn't post the ages of John or Sarah so this is a bit of guesswork

No joy on the 1871 census at the moment

Willow x

[heywood]

That looks good Willow 

1861 2696/88/56

Shows John born 1813.

[heywood]

There is a death

Liverpool June quarter 1881 vol 8b pg 66
John Hulme 69 yrs

[ColC]

Sarah was born 1821 Wrexham, Denbighshire; the 3 daughters were also born there
I wonder if there is a problem with the census in this area as Wrexham is close to the Lancashire border. Maybe need to check local archives, I had a similar problem elsewhere and it turned out the records for one particular district were lost because it fell between two areas.

The two other daughters were married Wrexham, I can find Constance on the later census returns but not Emma despite both died in Wrexham.

Marriage Wrexham 1869
Edward George
Constance Sarah Hulme

Death Q2/1916
George    Constance S    65    Wrexham    11b   410

Marriage Wrexham 1874
Emma Hulme
David Jones

2 or 3 possible deaths in Wrexham 1909 – 1924
2 born 1848:  1 born 1850:

Colin

[Speedwell]

Hi Willow
Oops, fancy forgetting DOB.
John Hulme christened 11 Dec 1822 Leek, Staffordshire, England
Sarah Chaloner christened 07 May 1822 Wrexham, Denbighshire

I find that the ages are always a bit dodgy especially for this part of my family tree. Edward George's age varied by a maximum of 12 years. Even my Grandpop didn't know his age when he completed the 1911 census on his behalf (Edward couldn't read or write). When he died, his age was recorded as 72. He was 83.

Thanks Heywood, I didn't know a parent on a marriage certificate could still be deceased even though that wasn't stated. Haven't traced Emma yet but certainly Catherine and Emma are a something I can have a closer look at.

Thanks Colin. Maybe the records have been lost. I find the switching between calling the whole area (where one half of my family lived) England or Wales has proved a problem too. Thanks for spotting Emma - I couldn't find her.

Shell

[heywood]

1851 John Hulme 33 yrs Labourer b Leek living Wrexham

1861 John Holme 48 yrs Labourer b Leek living Liverpool with Sarah and daughters

1871 transcribed as John Halsne but reads Hulme
John Hulme 59 yrs widower b Leek Dock Labourerliving in Kirkdale, Liverpool

Willow posted a possible 1881 although ‘married’ and I posted a possible death.

Free BMD has possible deaths

1864 Sarah Holme West Derby 55 yrs
1865 Sarah Holme West Derby 54 yrs
1866 Sarah Hulme 45 yrs Liverpool


West Derby is also Liverpool but a different registration district.

[Speedwell]

Wow! Thanks Heywood. That's great. I'll have a closer look tomorrow (Wed) logging off now - time to make tea.   

Can't find the Halsne record but in any case too old unless age is incorrect and I know that is possible.  The death of Sarah is a possibility though and would make her absence in records understandable. I suppose a John Hulme living alone could move around more and might be harder to identify with any level of certainty.

thanks for all your help though.