belfast mcgonigal's 1865

[chippybloke]

wow , Ive been away for a little while and found a whole page of replies.Im really impressed with the research youve given me,let me absorb these links etc and come back you shorly.Thanks.....

[chippybloke]

Facinating to read up what youve all found.Lets see if I can peice something together here. My grand dad, john thomas , son of william, married my grandma olga clark in 1914.his father william was a general labourer. john thomas was catholic.Both army records give shankill belfast as his birth place.He was a batchelor as stated on the wedding certificate. His army records ww1 say his previous army service was with the donegal artiullery special reserves.In his records of that time he was not married or had served anywhere else.
The Earsdon J.T.McGonigal , born 1850ish shankill belfast, joined the west riding 76th regiment underage as a drummer under the name Thomas Hughes Mcgonigal. reg number 1220. in 1865. He later confessed in 1878 to using the alias thomas hughes mcgonigal when he joined up. Stating his real name is john thomas mcgonigal.In 1882 he was discharged after 12 yrs service aged 30.He had a son , Henry this same year.In 1891 he came to england and his wife mary spellman aged 30.She died shortly after arrival.The 1911 cencus has him living at his son Daniels family aged 49 and a widower in shiremoor, earsdon in north east england.

My grandad jt mcgonigals service history has no mention of the 76th or being married. My grandfather died in 1935.The wierd thing is his death age of 84 recorded in 1935 fits the easdon mcgonigal perfectly, but is proved to be wrong by my grandads wedding certificate in 1914, stating batchelor aged 48, meaning he was 69 at his time of death in 1935.This adds confusioin to the story of both these  jt mcgonigals. The suggestion offered that these 2 may be related is interesting though.Maybe they were sons of 2 brothers, both been given the same name and perhaps how they ended up in the north east.
I hope this helps explain the easy confusion on 2 so closely linked men.I did write both of their histories side by side and see if they could have been the same man but to have 2 families and 2 army records, all completely unaware of the other is unlikely. I will research the idea suggested that they may be related/cousins etc. I will study also the info found on his father william and the marriage youve given me to ponder.Once again, great feedback, sorry I'm a little late in responding.

[heywood]

Hello again 

Yes it could we be that they two men are related. It is very confusing. Sorry to be back with more questions.

You write:
 The Earsdon J.T.McGonigal , born 1850ish shankill belfast, joined the west riding 76th regiment underage as a drummer under the name Thomas Hughes Mcgonigal. reg number 1220. in 1865. He later confessed in 1878 to using the alias thomas hughes mcgonigal when he joined up. Stating his real name is john thomas mcgonigal.In 1882 he was discharged after 12 yrs service aged 30.He had a son , Henry this same year.In 1891 he came to england and his wife mary spellman aged 30.She died shortly after arrival.The 1911 cencus has him living at his son Daniels family aged 49 and a widower in shiremoor, earsdon in north east england.

I have seen the records and as I mentioned the dates follow rather than run concurrently so in theory, they could be the same person hiding, for whatever reason, his past.
In 1891 4208/149,  Mary McGonigal is a patient in Newcastle and, as you say, dies soon afterwards.
Is this definitely Mary Spelman?
Do you have her husband and son in 1891?

1901 4810/88/28

Daniel McGougal b Dublin  (that could just be an assumption) is a boarder in Earsdon.
Do you have his father in 1901?

On your JT’s marriage, what is his father’s name and occupation?

Heywood

[chippybloke]

Thanks Heywwod , it would be an amazing story if they were the same man.I understand the 2 lives run concurrently in theory.If,however they were the same person and was 84 at time of death as stated, he would have fathered my mum and her twin sister at 82 years old.He would have signed up in ww1 saying he was 44 when really he was 63 and after the war, fathering 5 kids.he would have been some guy to have done it all.I believe the wedding age of 48 in 1914 to be true.It ties in true enough with his army records in ww1 and saying he was 28 in 1893 when he sighned up to the donegal artillery.I cant imagine how he could pass for being 15 years younger at every stage . I do need to sign up again at ancestry and research any death record for the earsdon mcgonigal and also any family tree on there for him that may shed light on the matter. The last record I have being the 1911 census listing him as widower living with his son henry's family.What happenened to him after that ? and where was he buried ? My mother knows for sure the preston cemetry, tynemouth is my grandads grave but where did the earsdon one end up ? In my guts, maybe they were related and can shine some light on each other . Im trying to find my notes on the mary spellman questions but may have lost them in the pile somewhere. I believe this john thomas's father was daniel, and not william as my grandads [general labourer] was called. Its a mystery to me also and a real juicy one to sort out too.I cant answer much about the spellman question as i need to research them again and find out more.
so in short. My jt mcgonigals father is william, a general labourer.
The earsdon mcgonigals father, i think, was daniel and spouse mary.
 hope this helps a little, its as far as my research goes.Looking for baptism records for 1850 for one and 1865 for the other is my next step.
looking for earsdon family trees on ancestry another step. Untill thats done I know little more...

[heywood]

There was no father for John Thomas who married Mary Spelman.
What was your William's occupation?
When did your William die?

[chippybloke]

williams occupation was general labourer.I have no idea when he died or where.

[heywood]

williams occupation was general labourer.I have no idea when he died or where.

Sorry, just realised I meant John Thomas’ death not William’s.

[heywood]

A daughter of the other John T married in 1908 in Doncaster.

She was born 1884 in Castlebar.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02676/1985803.pdf

She was registered as Ellen but married as Mary Ellen and is that name in 1911 - Mary Ellen Morton.

[chippybloke]

Hi, My jt mcgonigal died in 1935 in tynemouth , his occupation was a miner. Ive a copy of the death certificate [the age at death being suspect at 84].I dont know anything of the off spring of the earsdon mcgonigal with mary [spellman ?].I hope later this week to get a day free to get back to researching their respective histories.You are ahead of me at the moment and anything you find is a huge help.Thanks again.