Author Topic: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs  (Read 1355 times)

Offline panished

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Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« on: Monday 10 September 18 20:14 BST (UK) »
 Hi everyone

I am at present looking for all the records related to the Old Gipsy Family named Heron Hurn Hearn Young Herrings and evan more ways of spellings, I am at present trying to connect the written records of all the Gipsy Families of Britain to the stated Census reports and see how the Genealogy of both match up, in turn learning as much as I can and helping everyone who as an interest, many people have down through the years wrote of, and about, Gipsy Families, I will try in my own way to collect also the history of the Genealogy and times of all the Gipsies, it is well known that the Heron Hearne’s are a very Old Romany Family, I was told that many of the northern Gipsy Families have their roots linked to the Herons, I was also told that the Hurns and Dark Young’s are of the same People, I do not know what is true but the People I listened to, I would say were telling the truth, I want to find records of all the Gipsy Families of Britain and share them with everybody who as a love for the People I write about, I know not every Family line as in a direct way, would have been the ones who landed in this Country along with Families like the Boswells and the Smiths, there will be many, maybe most who’s Families joined with the original Romany Gipsies, and there is nothing wrong with that, i think all Gipsy People who came out of the Gipsies are Gipsies, I will try my best and find the truth for everybody. If anybody who reads these words would put on here any related Census reports or records of the People I write about I would appreciate your kind efforts in bringing the truth to all, this below is the first record I have wrote, it is a great record of the times of the mid 1800s if you read into the record there are many truths, if anyone as found records of the People below i would be grateful if you would post them on this thread, I will put everything on that I find in the following pages of this thread about these stated Peoples, i have found many records of Herons Hearnes, some may not connect to the Gipsy People and be just locals, i have found it is best to collect everything, you can then work through the information, do not let evan the name of a magistrate or town hall go astray, records of names like this i have found turn up again in other storys connecting People, it is best i have found to write the full accounts up of all the many records that you may come across while researching, this is what i will also do from now, after this research I will again try my best and search for another Family, i also hope to find every Gipsy Family in Britain, i know this will not be possible so also hope that someone one day will carry on when i am gone, i believe all the Gipsy Families of Britain are Related, in some way they will all connect, the wrong message i think as been wrote down through the yeares, everybody as had their say, this is just me having my own talk, i want to learn as much truths as i can and inturn share the truth, so everybody then may have respect for All of the long Dead, for how could you not respect all of them if the truth came to you.
 
Stamford Mercury
Lincolnshire
Friday 15 May 1857

Wellingborough Petty Sessions
May 11, before C. Sergeant ( Chairman). F.U.Sartoris, J.Young, and H.M.Stockdale. 
Edw, Hearne, marine-store collector, a swarthy son of the Gipsy tribe, was charged by Superintendent Chambers with camping by the roadside and making a fire near the roadside, contrary to the Act. Constable Cowley said he was on duty at Easton on the 19th inst., about 4 in the morning, when he saw a Gipsy camp, near which a fire was burning and a child amusing itself close to it, he apprehended the prisoner, who had been in the lock-up since. Defendant said his usual residence was at Buckden, in Huntingdonshire, and had nine children to maintain, which he did by buying and selling bones, and although his mode of getting a livelihood for himself and family was thought by some to be not of the most respectable kind, his opinion was if persons were honest in their dealings his was equal to any other. When away from home sometimes it was necessitated to rest for the night by the wayside, but he was not in the habit of camping after the Gipsy fashion. A young woman lit a little straw to dry some baby-linen, and which was all the fire that was made. He had never been in custody before. Mr. Chambers stated that farmers of the locality complained of the frequent depredations commited by gangs of itinerant prowlers, and were anxious the mischief should be stopped. Mr. Coleman and Mr. York, farmers. On tendering defendant a good character, he was discharged with a caution on payment of 3.s.6.d. Costs. The wife of the Gipsy stepped forwards and exhibited a shinning sovereign, from which the expenses were taken, and the defendant after a polite bow and thanks to the Magistrates, made his exit.

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Offline panished

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 23 September 18 20:51 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone 

 This is another record of the Herons that i came across while researching, there is much information that is within the writing that may be used to help people in their research, i will myself return to this record in my later researches, it is full of the most important historical knowledge, i will put more up soon, if any one as any records to help in my research of these Herons i would appreciate your help.

 

Saturday 12 September 1936
Hull Daily Mail
Yorkshire

                                                  THE PASSING OF A GIPSY

                                                 Age-Old Ritual at Bridlington

The ritual which as been going on by the fraternity throughout the centuries was observed at Sewerby, near Bridlington, yesterday, when the funeral took place of Gipsy William Heron, who died at Sewerby at the age of 74. Yesterday afternoon the cortege left Sewerby for Hull, where the internment took place at Chanterlands-Avenue Cemetery.
Gipsy Heron was well known in Hull, and was properly the best-known horse dealer at the annual horse fairs which precede Hull fair. Among his own people he was looked upon has a “King”, and the mourners yesterday included some who had travelled from Scotland Ireland and the South of England to pay their last tributes.

Gipsy Heron was a native of Yorkshire, being born at Foxholes. Since the commencement of the season he had been living in his caravan on a camping field in Sewberby, and had been in in-indifferent health for the past two years. He lived in retirement for the past four or five years.

                                                      CARAVAN BURNED

Prior to the internment, Gipsy Herons caravan, in which where placed all his possessions and personal belongings, was burnt in accordance with the custom of his Race. Before the coffin was borne to Hull, only the ashes and the wheels of the caravan remained.  A special tent had been set up in which Gipsy Heron lay in state from Wednesday until Friday morning. During that time his relative also remained besides the tent. The tent was also burned yesterday afternoon.

The principal mourners were Mr Oscar Heron ( brother), Londonderry: Mr and Mrs F. Pickles. Son-in-law and Daughter: Mr and Mrs Oscar Heron. Son and Daughter-in-law: Mr and Mrs Nelson Pickles (Scotland). Mr and Mrs Herbert Boss. Son-in-law and Daughter: Mr and Mrs Amos Heron. Son and Daughter-in-law. Mr and Mrs E. Gray. Son-in-law and Daughter: Mr and Mrs E. heron. (Son and daughter-in-law), Blackpool: and the following Grandchildren; Ruebin, Amos, and Annie Heron. Dempsey, Victoria and Lewis Pickles. Clones and Alice Heron. Ezra and Zuby Boss. Frampton, Sanie, and William Pasty.
Others present included Mr Herbet Watnel. Mr William Watnel. Mr Tom Fisher. Mr and Mrs E. Boswell. Mr Albert Starr. Mr and Mrs A. Patison. Mr Brown. Mr Noah Heron. Mr Dover Heron. Miss Annie Heron. Mr and Mrs Freer. and Mrs Johnson Hull.

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Offline whiteout7

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 25 September 18 10:30 BST (UK) »
I can see a marriage to Nelson Pickles by Sibby Herron in 1922 at St Nicholas Church in Aberdeen. Herron seems to be a common surname in Aberdeen in Scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Nelson Pickles (born 1892) seems to have been living in Dalkeith, Midlothian as a young man.



Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline panished

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 25 September 18 20:10 BST (UK) »
Hi

I have not tryed to look for you but would you tell me your first name, i would like to thank you for your kind help, it is received with gratitude behond dout, first i do hope life is keeping you fine, and do you know you will have the greatest of Luck for your Family, you yourself will be remembered down in the many yeares to come, i have read through what you have just wrote and i find your finding very interesting, i must try and stay true to my research, truthfully i just want to go with the wind, but some people dont like the way i write and it is hard for me to understand what they mean, so i now write like this, i will go back later for the search for the Familys connected to the Herons, i will only put the many records of them on now, then Fine People as yourself will put the great writings on you find, that means you can speak for me, the writings you find are now apart of history, well done , i will never forget you, ever, if we never speak again remember i say this in the most honest way forever, i to have came across many many many records of the Herons, lots from Scotland and Ireland to, most if not nearly all are of the locals, but then i come across some that i think are from the Proud Gipsies, i want to help all Gipsy Peoples, the ones who are long out of Their People and the ones who have stayed strong, i think lots of writers were fooled by the Old Gipsies, people think the writers fooled the Gipsies and stole their Truth, but i have been reading thousands of writen accounts of the older times and now i think the Gipsies did a number on the scholors of the past, the trouble is the Old Gipsies are now gone to this world and only left is the writings of the scholors so history only tells us what they thought the Old Gipsies were saying, when i put many records on i will try to decifer the real truth, i believe i know it already, but again i thank you for your kind time in searching as you have, i hope you may find more and never be ashamed or think nothing in a bad way, in writing what you have just wrote you are of a rear kind, never forget that to do a good turn before a bad one is the kindest thing.

michael

now look at this, i found this tonight, just a few minutes ago, i wonder what to make of things, the Pickles are with the Greatest of them all, Well to-do Romany of the Highest Order, do you know the Boswells the fine Lady below desends from round Yorkshire, The Pickles Wed with the Herons and Boswells to name but Two, i wonder who they are.

Gloucester Citizen 1 October 1927
Gloucester Journal 8 October 1927
Market Harborough and Midland Mail 7 October 1927
 
AN OLD GIPSY RITE.

An old rite of the tribe, the burning of her caravan was carried out after the death of Mrs. Pickles (78), a Scottish Gipsy well-known in the Lothians.


                                                     Shield Daily News 1 October 1927
                                                                 Northumberland

                                                                CARAVAN BURNED


                                                Ancient Rite of a Noted Scottish Character.

Following the old-time custom among the Gipsy tribes the caravan of a well-known Scottish Gipsy Woman has been destroyed by burning. The Woman was Mrs Pickles-“Madame Victoria” as she was known; she carried the business of character reading of the hand. She had been a familiar figure to the public of the Lothians and other parts of Scotland for more than thirty years, and for about a quarter of a century had made her headquarters in a caravan near the promenade at Portobello. Edinburgh’s seaside resort. She was the eldest member of the Boswell tribe being 78 years of age, and originally from Yorkshire.
The Lothian’s has been one of the principal centres of the Gipsies ever since these nomads are first reported in Scotland during the sixteenth Century.


Offline whiteout7

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #4 on: Friday 28 September 18 20:45 BST (UK) »
Newspaper reports are good. I think the surname Boss is actually Boswell.

Riley Boss had three wives, Charlotte Hammond, Lucy Boswell and Shurensi (sometimes Susannah) Smith.

Some of Riley Bosses children married Herons and Youngs

http://www.gypsygenealogy.com/showarticle.php?article_id=83

Mel

Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 04 October 18 20:15 BST (UK) »
 Hi Mel

Thank you for the Link to the Gypsy Genealogy Web Site, Eric Trudgill and Anne-Marie Ford are setting the bar with their outstanding contributions in their honest attempt to be as pragmatic as is humanely possible in that desire to learn and share, which is to them I am sure a great passion, they both find themselves in uncharted waters that as yet to be sailed, they are both very lucky indeed to live in this time that will bring great discovery’s  that in turn will be of the greatest benefit to many, I do enjoy reading through their writings, Eric Trudgill writes in a very numerate solid foundational tone, hinged with the slightest of pessimism that all great Historians must cloak themselves in, it is not right to just be a know all, so His wiliness to acknowledge that his own writings though of the highest of standards may well be corrected in a way that they are not false but of the learning curve that was born on the cusp that is the changing of the day and the bringing of the night, how great it is to see through darkness.  Anne-Marie Ford I think as the flow of a poetic Flower, I do not need to say no more, well done and good luck to them both in their future endeavours, and again Mel thank you for being so kind as to send me the Link about Riley Boswell and the connections to the Heron Young’s, who I am at present trying to research and learn about here on roots chat, I am trying to stay with the Herons and not go of in a tangent to much but I to have been finding records of the Boss Boswells that are connected to the Herons Hearne’s Young’s, I will put just a few on my next post to show people who like me try to understand and find more of their real life as in living, what I want to achieve is a way for a researcher to match names up, I truly think all Gipsy People will be connected, there as bean I think a false attempt to separate the Gipsies, this attempt as worked in what I have listened to down through the years’ since the internet brought many people together from many locations and different kinds of lifestyles, I have listened to people from the biggest of the Gipsy names of the past, people from names that many never have known, evan in the slightest way, or evan been wrote about, people with well-known names who think that just be course they have a name that is known from the older writers, well they think this carries something, how strange is that, I have listened to the stories of people whose name as only been wrote about in a derogatory way yet they tell of great Gipsy truths in their talk, any way I am trying to find many records on this thread so that in the stories I find more names or clues will link up and show the connection that binds all Gipsy Family’s, not with the chains that were weaved by the false narrative of the ignorant, for truly many people only wrote in the style of their own day, their own life, their own teachings, and they never evan new this, they never new they were only analysing the life they had lived, often I have read into their writing and it was truley themselves and their own teachings, there are many writers who are and have been searching throughout time, they should have just looked in a mirror and saved themselfs a long journey, they were lost, but the trouble was they may well have found themselves in that tangled vine that is truly trapped in the glizening web, intising is the lure of genealogy history, but their legacy is surely only now in my mind a dirty mess, for every record that a person may find themselves in, represents only maybe just one percent of the times and the doings of that said record, many many times there will be no recorded history, you have to know how to read records, to read that which was never wrote is to learn the real truth, there will be clues, this is where a researcher must transcribe every detail of every account, once you start to learn how to understand you will start to read the unwriten, all Gipsies of the past were switched on, they all new in my mind what is what, they have been underestimated and not given full credit, this separation talk that makes its way in to our time is not right, true many thrive on such talk, they write in supple ways.

Thank you again Mel for the fine link to the Gypsy Genealogy Web Site, I do recommend everybody who as an interest in the ongoing truth to read through the many many thoughtful pages of this vast knowledgeable Web Site by two very good Researches of high calibre. I will put a few things on about the Boss Boswells then I will carry on with my Research for the Herons

michael

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #6 on: Friday 05 October 18 06:48 BST (UK) »
Hi Mel

Thank you for the Link to the Gypsy Genealogy Web Site, Eric Trudgill and Anne-Marie Ford are setting the bar with their outstanding contributions in their honest attempt to be as pragmatic as is humanely possible in that desire to learn and share, which is to them I am sure a great passion, they both find themselves in uncharted waters that as yet to be sailed, they are both very lucky indeed to live in this time that will bring great discovery’s  that in turn will be of the greatest benefit to many, I do enjoy reading through their writings, Eric Trudgill writes in a very numerate solid foundational tone, hinged with the slightest of pessimism that all great Historians must cloak themselves in, it is not right to just be a know all, so His wiliness to acknowledge that his own writings though of the highest of standards may well be corrected in a way that they are not false but of the learning curve that was born on the cusp that is the changing of the day and the bringing of the night, how great it is to see through darkness.  Anne-Marie Ford I think as the flow of a poetic Flower, I do not need to say no more, well done and good luck to them both in their future endeavours, and again Mel thank you for being so kind as to send me the Link about Riley Boswell and the connections to the Heron Young’s, who I am at present trying to research and learn about here on roots chat, I am trying to stay with the Herons and not go of in a tangent to much but I to have been finding records of the Boss Boswells that are connected to the Herons Hearne’s Young’s, I will put just a few on my next post to show people who like me try to understand and find more of their real life as in living, what I want to achieve is a way for a researcher to match names up, I truly think all Gipsy People will be connected, there as bean I think a false attempt to separate the Gipsies, this attempt as worked in what I have listened to down through the years’ since the internet brought many people together from many locations and different kinds of lifestyles, I have listened to people from the biggest of the Gipsy names of the past, people from names that many never have known, evan in the slightest way, or evan been wrote about, people with well-known names who think that just be course they have a name that is known from the older writers, well they think this carries something, how strange is that, I have listened to the stories of people whose name as only been wrote about in a derogatory way yet they tell of great Gipsy truths in their talk, any way I am trying to find many records on this thread so that in the stories I find more names or clues will link up and show the connection that binds all Gipsy Family’s, not with the chains that were weaved by the false narrative of the ignorant, for truly many people only wrote in the style of their own day, their own life, their own teachings, and they never evan new this, they never new they were only analysing the life they had lived, often I have read into their writing and it was truley themselves and their own teachings, there are many writers who are and have been searching throughout time, they should have just looked in a mirror and saved themselfs a long journey, they were lost, but the trouble was they may well have found themselves in that tangled vine that is truly trapped in the glizening web, intising is the lure of genealogy history, but their legacy is surely only now in my mind a dirty mess, for every record that a person may find themselves in, represents only maybe just one percent of the times and the doings of that said record, many many times there will be no recorded history, you have to know how to read records, to read that which was never wrote is to learn the real truth, there will be clues, this is where a researcher must transcribe every detail of every account, once you start to learn how to understand you will start to read the unwriten, all Gipsies of the past were switched on, they all new in my mind what is what, they have been underestimated and not given full credit, this separation talk that makes its way in to our time is not right, true many thrive on such talk, they write in supple ways.

Thank you again Mel for the fine link to the Gypsy Genealogy Web Site, I do recommend everybody who as an interest in the ongoing truth to read through the many many thoughtful pages of this vast knowledgeable Web Site by two very good Researches of high calibre. I will put a few things on about the Boss Boswells then I will carry on with my Research for the Herons

michael

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #7 on: Monday 15 October 18 20:35 BST (UK) »
 I have been reading the great story of George Youngs and Newcombe Boss stated as being Gipsies, in the year 1818 1819 they were charged with stealing an Horse, they were sentenced to death but reprieved you will see the fate of Newcombe on the Riley Boss page on the link from the Gypsy Genealogy web site, the interesting information i found was that in 1846 on the 22 May, stated on a Friday, in the Lincolshire Chronicle

At the Petty Sessions.
" held on saturday last, two Gipsies, named John Herring and Newcombe Boswell, were convicted before Henry Rogers, Esq; as rogues and vagabonds and commited to prison to hard labour for a month."

So the two Newcombes are Boss and Boswell, pluss the Youngs and the Herrings are with them, then i read the story below of how the Gipsies are also known as Bossils, the Boss the Boswells must all be Bossils who are Gipsies, or Gipsies are Bossils who are Boss and Boswell, Either way they are all Gipsies. If anyone wants all the full accounts up of the whole story of Newcombe Boss and George Youngs from 1818 1819 i will write everything up for you incase you may find information that is hidden within the storys, it is no bother at all, you only have to ask, no problem.
I do know that many people know many things, but i do not, thats why i am trying to learn through researching, i have read what some people have said or claimed, but i am just trying to look for myself, there will be many people like me to, i want them all to learn through my learning.

Friday 18 May 1849
Lincolnshire Chronicle

Magistrates Clerks Office, 11 May, before Hy. E. Smith, Esq;
Riley Boss, Agnes Boss, and Jno. Jackson, of the tribe of Bossils, or Gipsies, were commited to Kirton to hard labour as Rogues and Vagabonds.

Below i found the record of death of William Boss from the Riley Boss page on the Gypsy Genealogy site, i did not find anything else about him yet though but while looking i found the marridge record below in the same year and County, just a few months apart, it was sad how William was said to be dead, but we can finnish on a Wedding to lighten the mood.

Friday 27 January 1843
Stanford Mercury
Lincolnshire
Died
Wm. Boss, one of the Gipsy tribe. His remains were intered at Burton.

Friday 31 March 1843
Lincolshire Chronicle
Married
At Ryhall, on Monday,
Dives Smith to Sophronia Smith, Grandchild to the late Wisdom Smith, the noted Gipsy.

 I will put more storys on next with more information about the Gipsies known as Boss, i will evan look for the Jacksons for there with them and will not be unlooked for,  then i will be back to my research in looking for the Herons, i think they are all the same Family though or very close. I  am trying to learn what i do not know about the bigger picture of the Genealogy of the History of the British Gipsies, if anyone can help in my research i would welcome your input.

Offline whiteout7

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 16 October 18 10:23 BST (UK) »

The principal mourners were Mr Oscar Heron ( brother), Londonderry

There is an interesting article here about a Mrs Oscar Heron's passing January in 1966

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1259100?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=oscar&searchText=heron&searchUri=%2Ftopic%2Ffunerals%2F%3Ftopic%3Dfunerals%26amp%3BQuery%3Doscar%2Bheron&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

When I look up her death entry in Ireland it says her first name was Ada (she was 87 years old)

I wonder if she was the wife of the Oscar Heron (famous horse dealer) that passed in 1953 and is buried at Dundonald cemetery in Dublin?

I can not find his death recorded in civil registration, could be in an Irish newspaper.
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)