Author Topic: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs  (Read 1339 times)

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 24 October 18 22:50 BST (UK) »
Thanks again Mel

More for me to learn from, The Gypsy Genealogy web site as so much great information in. Thank you for everything, When i first put the article record on about Charlotte Hammond i noticed how it was stated Radford Nottingham, i am from Nottingham, i have been tracing the Old Camping Grounds, so a while back i looked for one at Radford this is some of what i found, i will not divert to much, i think though that such things as this will be of help to others who read these words.

 I have read that Radford derived its name of the "red ford" from the Mottled Bed Sandstone in the high cliffs, where the Alfreton Road crossed the Leen by a ford.   
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101603268
 
 There was an Old way from Lenton to Radford the Marsh Road or Radford Marsh.  Radford used to be in the priory of Lenton so sometimes Radford is talked about as Lenton in the Old writings, in the early 1900s i think it was then that the name changed to Faraday Road where the Worled famouse Raleigh bikes were made, now in this time next to this Road is a new housing estate, the road named as Radmarsh Road, i think from what i have read from many Old refferances there was once an Old Camping Ground at Radford, in the Fields around the area known as Radford Marsh. Another bit of information for others is that there was an Old Lane known as Outgang Lane. Outgang Lane is wrote about in 1488  known as the Outgoinges of Radford and Lenton leading North toward the Linges, the Lings was the Old name of the Forest, meaning where the heather grew, so look out in the census or other records for names like Radford Marsh or Outgang Lane. below i read this record, i do not know if it is corect, it as Gipsy People stated as staying around the area that i now write of.
 
1881 
Name David ALLEN
Relation Head Marital Status M Gender Male Age 42
Birthplace pworth, Lincoln, England
Occupation Hawker In Earthenware
Name Harriett ALLEN
Relation Wife Marital Status M Gender Female Age 33
Birthplace Sheffield, York, England
Occupation Hawkers Wife
Name George ALLEN
Relation Son Gender Male Age 9
Birthplace Dronfield, Derby, England
Occupation Assistant Hawker
Name James ALLEN
Relation Son Gender Male Age 5
Birthplace Glossop, Derby, England
Name James KNIGHT
Relation Relative Marital Status U Gender Male Age 19
Birthplace Sheffield, York, England
Occupation Hawker
Dwelling Radford Marsh Caravan Census Place Lenton, Nottingham, England


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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 16 February 19 15:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi everyone

  I am researching the best I can, on here it is dedicated to the Herons, Hearns, Young's and all their name spellings, I want to learn and share, mostly though to show the respect for the dead Gipsies, this is the most important thing, I will try through my research to make them feel that their truth is important, their life was real, their truth was real, I am also doing another research about WW1, well I have been looking for story's about the Herons on here when I came across these records, does any one know if this Rueben Heron below from the Manchester papers is from the Herons me and Mel write about.



Tuesday 02 July 1918
  Manchester Evening News
  Lancashire

PRISONERS OF WAR
  Pte. Watson, Machine Gun Corps,  Lower Broughton. Pte. Reuben Heron, Manchester Regiment,  Pte. James Potts. Machine Gun Corps, Altringham.
   
Wednesday 05 May 1948
  Manchester Evening News
  Lancashire 

The Family of the late Mr. REUBEN HERON, sincerely Thank relatives, friends and neighbour's.     

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 16 February 19 15:28 GMT (UK) »
I write these words on the record below to try and help people who know evan less than me, and I really only know I little and must often get things wrong but a person should at least try. 

 My Mother would talk about finding my way back from a journey by turning my cloths inside out, she would look at me and laugh as she talked, she would say “ just look at you, you look like you’ve been dragged through an hedge backyard's" the bad spirits she said would not be able to see me, this is why below the turf was on Major Boswells chest, it was to trick the bad spirits, they would think He was already buried and the grass had grown over His grave, I learned all these things, my Mother also taught me ways how to reverse evil things, send them back to the Sender, you have to do something, like a ritual, and from the very beginning the Mokody, people don't really understand that word, you must not read it, it is to be felt, you really feel it, its real, I suppose a man can turn his back on such things, but that would be up to yourself, you must never forget that good Spirits you may talk to, my Mother would say this with the most conviction, Good Luck to Everyone, these below and above are just extracts to help you understand how hard it is to find the right names on records and also look for the Strangest of things, if its the truth you seek.


Staffordshire Advertiser Saturday 21 May 1870

DEATH OF A PATRIACHAL GIPSY-Major Boswell who for the last seven years has made a tent on the Stone Road, Longton, his principle place of abode, died on Sunday at the advanced age of 108 years. The body was “laid out” in caricature Gipsy style. He lies “instate” on a bed on the ground, covered with a white sheet, and a tuft of grass on the chest. The part of the tent where the body lies is lined with white, decorated with flowers, a picture of the Saviour, and wax candles on either side.

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 16 February 19 15:44 GMT (UK) »

In this story below about William Young's, well the story does not always go in a way that a persons mind as been possessed down through the yeares by the so-called writers who have thought of themselves as the passers of Gipsy truth, you just would not believe all the things I have read through hundreds of yeares of pure real undiluted lies and fabricated nonsense of the most high order from many so-called people of little intellect for that which they have no comprention in the least of leasts of evan the nano mathematics of to-days scientific thought process, void of evan a soul they are, there is also some good educated thoughts, well worth reading, anyway the Herons kept it strong, as you have read through this research of Mels and mine, they may well like everyone else be of mixed ancestry and evan joined older Gipsies from say the 1400s, but the thing is they kept it strong and this is what to me is a Romany Gipsy, there is to much talk from most people about them claiming to be of the true Romany, why is this, well I think its mostly a style thing, Lee would write yeares back about the “Black Face's" well lots of Gipsies would class them as low class or not as good as the more moved on Gipsies who had got more of a whiter face and lost some of the meanings of the older Romany Gipsies, its true years back to be a modern Gipsy would meen you was the real deal, i have listoned to a few Gipsy people state this and i believe there words, now some people just go on saying look at me I am a Romany, but truthfully and with respect in manners I do not think they are, Respect to the Herons with all my thoughts I think they are what the Romany Gipsy is in all its essence , of course there are more familys to, they may well have the d.n.a of France or Spain, these things are all good, they may derive from Indian lands as in the men folk as people have talked of as of that meaning you're the greatest, I think though that they carried the language and customs of the very old Gipsies and stuck with it right up until the times I speak of, I know no truths of this day to say more for them, never forget, people who have not wrote right in the past still passed on their words that shape peoples thoughts of today, i remember that Lee once wrote the words of the old Gipsies who he listened to when he was small, these are Gipsy people talking about Gipsy people not strangers trying to talk of their talk, well Lee said long ago lots of the old family's were travelling about together and meeting up and they had a get to gether at a camp, they were all around a burning fire just being social, I suppose this is what it was like all over but all the old family's were talking in the Romany language of the day, there was lots of what you would be right to call big names, respectfull names, they would be all related to, like one big Gipsy family, then all of a sudden the Herons took to talking to themselves for some reason or other, well the camp just went quiet, it was deep deep deep old Romany talk, it had a style and flo that unless you was born straight into them you no matter your name and knowledge well they left everyone just feeling like wow, Lee said he listened to people saying how everyone just got up and left the fire side, left the Herons to talk among themselves in the oldest of fashion, Lee had great respect for such things and I learned from his teachings, I do not know how many yeares or generations the story comes from, I hope that others not tainted by lies will learn also from evan me.


Nottinghamshire Guardians Thursday 25 November 1852

SHOCKING DEATH OF A GIPSEY. - On the 18th inst. Mr Coroner Swan held an inquest on the body of a man unknown at the Seven Stars Arnold. William Young's, who stated he was 70 years of age and had been a Gypsey all his life, said he had seen the man many times. He went by the name of Robin Woods, and was also a Gypsey, Sometimes he travelled about the Country by himself and sometimes he joined a company of Gipsies and travelled with them for a time, then he left them to join another company. He often took the name of the party with which he joined and consequently was called by different names. He was last with witness on Monday night at his camp in Lime lane, Arnold. On Tuesday witness moved his camp to Basford Lane.

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 16 February 19 15:49 GMT (UK) »
I put this record on below to show people what you will be up against when you try to research through the Census reports or other records, you must know that every single family line will be wrong, never be like some who claim these are mine and those are yours, remember the Gipsies are Gipsies, it is strange to how many of the myths have some truth to them, I have read many records of Gipsy family's taking in people and bringing them up as their own, these records from long ago to, these people inturn would have had children who again had children, what of d.n.a then, what of the so-called records, lots of times I have read of records of trouble or no trouble where Gipsy people have had others children like it was not your wife, or husband, what of these so-called records then, remember that if you see beautifully trees growing in the countryside you are looking at nature and you feel nature, you are a good person, if you go round just seeing and talking of this flower is the greatest in the forest well your eyes are deceived to the beauty before you, it is right to talk of the truth and say what is the truth, but to just be conned into the peddle, is to talk the talk of truth unreal, remember none is higher or none is lower, but the truth must still be spoken.


Daly Gazette for Middlesbrough Thursday 2 December 1915

TRACED BY FINGER PRINTS-Charges preferred at Stockton to-day against James Allen 22, John Boswell 22, and also James Smith 21. The defendants were further charged under the Aliens Restriction Act. On enquiries being made to Scotland Yard it was found that Allen's proper name was Lowther, Smiths real name was Wilshaw, and Boswell was Wilkinson. Defendants were natives of Sheffield and were strangers to the Town; they had very bad Police records.

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 16 February 19 15:53 GMT (UK) »
I put this record on below to show respect, to show all who will try to learn about their relatives that they were not a comic strip fantasy caricature going around on a donkey singing some old song, sure there would of been a few soft ones who just kept out of the way, that's the law of mathematics, the law of averages, but if the Gipsies of the past were in any way soft as in general they would have been swept away by the tide that sweeps through all the lanes of Europe, it's a strong tide, remember that king who it is wrote about as him saying how he could hold back the sea for he was the mighty king Canute, I think that was his name, well the Gipsies could read the flow and ebb, roll with it, sometimes you had to battle hard, and maybe not get far, but you was still alive, other times you could sail along with the wind from the sound of the bird.



Monday 04 March 1878
  Daily Gazette for Middlesbrough
  Yorkshire


GIPSIES AND THE POLICE
     

THE POLICE.
On Saturday, five rough-looking gipsies, named Edward Young, William Gray, Harris Gray, Goliath Young, and Reuben Heron, were charged at the Durham (County) Petty Sessions with assaulting P.C. Lewis and P.C. Tears. The gipsies had pitched in their tents in a field near Durham. On Saturday forenoon P.C's Lewis and Tears found the men of the tribe engaged on the highway in a large gambling school, pitch and toss and cards being in full swing. The officers demanded their names, but whilst doing so P.C Tears was felled to the ground by Harris Gray, who struck him behind the head with an iron bar, and at the same time Edward Young stabbed him on the arm with a large clasp knife, which penetrated through  his clothes, but just grazed the skin. The other men then commenced to kick the prostrate constable, and 
Lewis had considerable difficulty in forcing his way to him. Eventually both officers got away, after P.C. Lewis had also been knocked down, and on returning to the camp with reinforcements   
 they apprehended the prisoners. The Bench sent Wm. Gray, Goliath Young, and Reuben Heron to gaol for six weeks' hard labour, whilst the other two prisoners were ordered to undergo three months' hard labour, the whole of them to be incarcerated for an additional fourteen days in default of paying costs.

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 16 February 19 15:56 GMT (UK) »
 



  I put this record on to learn about the Herons and learn real truths, I hope everyone who reads these records will also learn and if anyone may find more records in these researchers I would be gratefull if you would contribute anything that you may know or find. 

Tuesday 29 March 1955
 Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer
  Yorkshire
 
Gipsy Rite of Fire Proceeds Funeral

From our Blackpool correspondent In keeping with the Romany custom, all his personal belongings had been burned before the Funera! yesterday of Mr. Reuben Heron, aged 41, a man of Gipsy stock and boardinghouse keeper, of Albert Road. Blackpool.The Funeral at careton near Blackpool was proceeded by a service at St. Stephen's Church, North Shore, there was a procession of more than 30 cars carrying the 200 mourners. Gipsies from all parts of the country had travelled to Blackpool to attend. The Funeral cortege stretched for a quarter of a mile Mr Heron was the son of  Mr and Ms. Oscar Heron, of Hemingway. Blackpool, his Mother being a wellknown Palmist on Blackpool's Central Beach.


Monday 08 October 1956
  Lancashire Evening Post
  Lancashire 

Mr. Reuben Heron, of 76. Albert road. Blackpool, son of Oscar Heron, retired amusement caterer, 93 Hemingway. Blackpool, left £3.403 gross. £129 net.
   
 
Wednesday 22 July 1931
  Skegness Standard
  Lincolnshire
 
Reuben Heron, young Skegness amusement attendant, admitted riding a bicycle without a light.   

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 16 February 19 16:26 GMT (UK) »
So on a final note

 When you get into your research in a more in-depth way, well you may want to know the reasons of why, not just that plain fact of this or that, why, well you will just have to try, the old Gipsies it is said came from far away, in these far away lands it is said they had customs that may be of a religious type or cultural way of going on, the Humans as of me and you developed our inner being, they say this is the soul, we then often asked ourself questions like who are we, who made us, this as been going on a long time, try to reseach the history of mankind, it's a good read, well there are these inner-soul customs that we have learned and taken on, they have become a part of every culture in the whorled, all having all kinds of difference's but still descending back to the time we started to use our brain, they say we are still only using a minute part of it to, that's true, then you have the things that are not customs or suspicions, you have inner things that everyone had from the long times of evolution, natural protection ways, things that you are born with, you get that sense sometimes things are not quite right, you can almost smell it, I was reading about the things below to help me understand the truth of the records i find and story's i was told, did you know it is wrote that it may take the dead sometimes three days maybe to omit the death smell, maybe this is why in some cultures they lay the body in state for a few days, you have to maybe wait for the right moment to release the spirit, there are many such death rituals in cultures, I think the answer does not belong to just one answer, the answer is not right just saying this is what the old time people did for supperstions and rituals, then the answer is not just science teaching saying we are hot wired from birth to follow the flight or fight scenario, I think the answer is all of it, to emit one is to putrefy the truth, if it's the truth you seek you must first seek it, try and research these things below to help you understand more.
 
Research from the McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, published in the journal Evolutionary Biology.
Evolutionary biologist David Rollo of Canada found in his research   
that he thought for over 400 million years nearly all animals or insects emit the same stench when they die, to recognise and avoid the dead could reduce the chances of catching a diseases, or be eaten by other things that were higher up the food chain, oleic or linoleic acids are released through death, wild animals would also smell death so this is why people would be buried or burnt, or possessions burned.

One of the most bizare facts i have been learning is the oleic acids that insects and animals release at death which inturn triggers a responce in the things alive, well the acids are found in soap to, do you see the contradiction, but is it a contradiction, you have to think about that one, in nature and science all the answers are there, for every action there is a reaction, and did you know the old time fishermen from over the sea would tow a dead shark behind thier boat to stop sharks attacking their nets full of court fish, to the sharks  the stench of a dead shark spelled danger so off they would go, if you do real research as in more in-depth than this you will correct my writings and find more truths.

Read also about the research of sociologist and ecologist E. O. Wilson, there is some great reading.
If you go on the internet just type in about all the buring customs of the lands of India, then Romania and those Country's will show many of their customs along the roads that the Gipsies travelled, that evan I have talk about over these few posts, I think lots of things were picked up and  Incorporated by the Gipsies on the long road to you, people have wrote of whitcraft, vampires, the devil himself, all of these things, the truth is Gipsies are just Gipsies, when you know you will know, but how will you know when you don't first know, and if you don't first know how will you ever learn to know.

 I may not write again on this research if no one answers me, I have tried my best for the Herons, tried my best for all there relations, I have many many records of your family through the generations, but I think this is a good place for you to start your research, go to the Newspaper Archive web site I have often wrote about it, log on and join up, I have left out many clues in the extracts I have wrote, you may find untold story's of your people, the Newspaper Archive web site is not expensive join up and learn yourself of the Romany Gipsy Family, The Herons.

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Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 17 February 19 14:32 GMT (UK) »
If anyone does go on the Newspaper Archive Web Site, remember there are many things that may take you months or yeares to find out, you may not be on long, so just Liston to me for this advice, remember sometimes in the papers they get printed more than one time in a single day, and a very big piece of advice is you must look through all of the recorded stories, from several papers, the story changers and evan the names change, information gets left out and updated, if i was you i would sign up for a full year, you get unlimited access to everything, you must check all the accounts, so much is left out of some and if you just say "har"  look i just found this, and off you go, well you will miss out big time, look at these below, the more you look the more you find, what you find may be wrong but the more you do find the more you may make a considered judgment.



Monday 17 September 1894
  Hull Daily Mail
  Yorkshire

 
 GIPSY FUNERAL AT WITHERNSEA.
(FROM A SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT.)

 A Gipsy funeral took place at Withernsea on Saturday, and was attended by a large number of residents and visitors, to whom the deceased was well known. The coffin was of pitch pine, with brass  fittings, and was carried by the deceased's relatives from the encampment to the church, where the Church of England  service was read by the Rev C. Day, J.P., vicar, and much sympathy was shown to the widow (Mrs Young), who has visited Withernsea regularly for many years. In accordance with custom, the caravan and everything belonging to the to the deceased was burnt after the funeral, the unusual sight being, of course, the subject of considerable attention.
   

Monday 17 September 1894
  Hull Daily Mail
  Yorkshire



  The death of Gipsy James Young, 60 years of age, has been a great attraction this week. The Gipsies order is that all deceased's belongings should be destroyed and burnt, their belief being that should any of the deceased's property not be destroyed, his spirit would return and haunt them. Consequently deceased tent and belongings were engulfed by a huge fire. The sight was truly interesting, still pathetic, seeing that the widow would have nothing left but the clothes she stood in. The funeral was attended by a large number of gipsies, that had come from all parts of the Country. 



GIPSY'S FUNERAL AT WITHERNSEA
 
  Tuesday 18 September 1894
  Lincolnshire Echo
  Lincolnshire 


 A GIPSY FUNERAL.  A singular scene was witnessed at Withernsea on Saturday. On the previous Tuesday a party of gipsies encamped on a piece of ground near the promenade, and included amongst their number was John Young, better known as Fiddler jack,  who was exceedingly ill, and who died on Thursday. There was much lamentation in the  camp, and on Saturday the strange ceremony of burning his effects took place in connection with his funeral. The deceased was interred in the parish graveyard, and owing to the rumour afloat as to the after proceedings many persons gathered to witness the event, and there was much excitement. It is stated that some of the personal afects of the dead man were burnt on the night before the funeral, but the principal destruction of the property took place on Saturday afternoon near the camp, a short time after the return from the burial. The waggon that had belonged to Young, and which was said to have cost £40, was set on fire, and the clothes, bedding, and other effects of the deceased, including a set of china and a fiddle, were thrown onto the flames and consumed.
It was rumoured that the horse that had been owned by the deceased would be shot and cremated, but this was not done. This strange  custom, which is of great antiquity, is said to have  originated in order to prevent quarrelling amongst the relatives, and also that the widow might not be wooed for the property she night possess. It is also stated that the widow will for a period of three months have to depend entirely upon herself for sustenance, and in no way participate in any of the earnings of her relatives. The woman is said to be well known to the inhabitants of Withersea.