Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs

[panished]

 

Just something to look out for, in the record of Eva Heron up in court at Nottingham, look how she as the same solicitor as Emily Bacon on the record below hers, i have found many records by just researching Mr. R. A. Young, he has been associated with many court proceeding involving several Gipsy names, he has evan prosecuted them to, this is another way of researching, if you just find the name say of a Street or a Yard, go hard on researching just that name, information does turn up.

 
 Tuesday 13 March 1883
  Bolton Evening News
  Lancashire 

A BLACKPOOL GIPSY AT BRADFORD
 
 At Bradford on Monday, before Colonel Pollard and other magistrates, Delia Young, a gipsy, of whom it was stated that her family had been gipsies for 'generations, coming originally from Bohemia, was charged with fortune-telling. For some weeks prisoner, with a number of other gipsies, had been staying at a village named Wyke, and hundreds of persons, had visited her. Her fees ranged from 1s. to 5s., the latter sum being charged when a planet was ruled. She told the wife of a police-sergeant that it would not be safe to elope with a man to America unless he married her first, and to a servant she gave a written warranty, and told her that she was suffering from a discontented mind. It was given in evidence that her earnings must average several guineas a day for many weeks. For the defence it was noted that prisoner and her family had told fortunes at Blackpool during the season for twenty years. She was fined £5 and costs.

Ps. In the Newspaper the st James Gazette  Monday 12 March 1883 County London,  it was stated that the alternative to paying the fine was two months in prison, the fine was payed.
 

Monday 05 February 1923
 Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire

 CROSSED GIPSY'S PALM
         WITH PAPER.
 NOTTINGHAM HOUSEWIFE
      “UNDER A SPELL.”

 POLICE COURT SEQUEL.

The sequel to a vanished £1 note, was heard at the Nottingham Guildhall to-day. when Eva Heron. 21, described as a caravan-dweller, was charged with stealing from a woman by means of a trick. The defendant, came to see her on January 26th, telling her that her sister said there was a big event in her life that she ought know of. Witness replied that she did not wish to know, but accused  persisted in telling her. and asked her put a piece silver into her (witness) own hand. When witness replied that she had no 'silver but only notes, defendant offered to change some. Going into the front room the young woman followed her. and told her to lay a 10s. note on her hand. Again witness complied. Proceeding to talk about witnesses husband, who was in hospital, defendant suggested that the 10s. should be replaced by a £1 note, telling witness to look into her eyes when she spoke of her husband.  When accused left the house the £1 note went with her. It was her intention to give her 6d. as she was so persistent, but she never meant to part with the £1 as it was housekeeping money. Answering Mr. R. A. Young, who defended, witness denied that defendant said "if you give me £1 I will tell you everything.”
'' TRUTH IS TRUTH.''
P.s. dunkerley, who traced accused to a gipsy encampment near the Shoulder of Mutton Inn, Basford. said that when questioned the woman replied, I will tell the truth. I did have the £1 note, but will pay it back. “I took to buy clothes for my unborn  baby. Do the best you can for me.” At Hyson Green police station, in answer to the charge, she said. “Truth is truth . I did take the money and I am sorry and I will pay it back if you will let me. But the Lady was willing.”
Mr. Young said there was nothing previously against defendant, and argued that complainant  parted with her money willingly. If accused paid the money back, he suggested the Bench should put her on probation, with the additional understanding that she did not indulge in fortune-telling. The. Chairman (Ald. J. E. Pendleton, who was accompanied by Mrs, Dowson) considered the charge proved and that defendant exercised a spell over the woman. Who was evidently highly strung. As however, there was nothing against her previously, defendant would be placed on probation for three years, in addition to refunding the £1. and paying 10s. costs  Accused told the magistrates she would never tell fortunes again.

Small extracts below to show the same Solicitor as above, this Solicitors old records may hold many hidden records, he as represented several Gipsy family's over the yeares, there must be in Nottingham an archive of the family history of Youngs Solicitors.

Monday 14 October 1901
  Sheffield Daily Telegraph
  South Yorkshire 

FORTUNE-TELLING NEAR NOTTINGHAM
  WOMAN'S EXTRAORDANARY GULLIBILITY.  A remarkable case of fortune-telling stated at the Nottingham Shire Hall when an old gipsy-woman, named Emily Bacon, was charged 

Saturday 24 April 1909
  Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire 

FORTUNE TELLING “WORKING THE PLANETS”
  A charge of pretending and professing to tell fortunes, was preferred at the Nottingham Police-court to-day against a woman aged 60, named Emily Bacon, hawker, of no fixed abode. Mr. R. A. Young, defended. 
 
 Saturday 01 December 1894
  Leicester Chronicle
  Leicestershire 
FORTUNE-TELLING AT WOODTHORPE
 WOODTHORPE. AMUSING EVIDENCE. IN LEAGUE WITH THE DEVIL A 19th CENTURY SORCERESS.   Emily Bacon, hawker, of no fixed residence. RULING THE PLANETS.
   
 

[daisydew7]

Hi Mel

Thank you for the Link to the Gypsy Genealogy Web Site, Eric Trudgill and Anne-Marie Ford are setting the bar with their outstanding contributions in their honest attempt to be as pragmatic as is humanely possible in that desire to learn and share, which is to them I am sure a great passion, they both find themselves in uncharted waters that as yet to be sailed, they are both very lucky indeed to live in this time that will bring great discovery’s  that in turn will be of the greatest benefit to many, I do enjoy reading through their writings, Eric Trudgill writes in a very numerate solid foundational tone, hinged with the slightest of pessimism that all great Historians must cloak themselves in, it is not right to just be a know all, so His wiliness to acknowledge that his own writings though of the highest of standards may well be corrected in a way that they are not false but of the learning curve that was born on the cusp that is the changing of the day and the bringing of the night, how great it is to see through darkness.  Anne-Marie Ford I think as the flow of a poetic Flower, I do not need to say no more, well done and good luck to them both in their future endeavours, and again Mel thank you for being so kind as to send me the Link about Riley Boswell and the connections to the Heron Young’s, who I am at present trying to research and learn about here on roots chat, I am trying to stay with the Herons and not go of in a tangent to much but I to have been finding records of the Boss Boswells that are connected to the Herons Hearne’s Young’s, I will put just a few on my next post to show people who like me try to understand and find more of their real life as in living, what I want to achieve is a way for a researcher to match names up, I truly think all Gipsy People will be connected, there as bean I think a false attempt to separate the Gipsies, this attempt as worked in what I have listened to down through the years’ since the internet brought many people together from many locations and different kinds of lifestyles, I have listened to people from the biggest of the Gipsy names of the past, people from names that many never have known, evan in the slightest way, or evan been wrote about, people with well-known names who think that just be course they have a name that is known from the older writers, well they think this carries something, how strange is that, I have listened to the stories of people whose name as only been wrote about in a derogatory way yet they tell of great Gipsy truths in their talk, any way I am trying to find many records on this thread so that in the stories I find more names or clues will link up and show the connection that binds all Gipsy Family’s, not with the chains that were weaved by the false narrative of the ignorant, for truly many people only wrote in the style of their own day, their own life, their own teachings, and they never evan new this, they never new they were only analysing the life they had lived, often I have read into their writing and it was truley themselves and their own teachings, there are many writers who are and have been searching throughout time, they should have just looked in a mirror and saved themselfs a long journey, they were lost, but the trouble was they may well have found themselves in that tangled vine that is truly trapped in the glizening web, intising is the lure of genealogy history, but their legacy is surely only now in my mind a dirty mess, for every record that a person may find themselves in, represents only maybe just one percent of the times and the doings of that said record, many many times there will be no recorded history, you have to know how to read records, to read that which was never wrote is to learn the real truth, there will be clues, this is where a researcher must transcribe every detail of every account, once you start to learn how to understand you will start to read the unwriten, all Gipsies of the past were switched on, they all new in my mind what is what, they have been underestimated and not given full credit, this separation talk that makes its way in to our time is not right, true many thrive on such talk, they write in supple ways.

Thank you again Mel for the fine link to the Gypsy Genealogy Web Site, I do recommend everybody who as an interest in the ongoing truth to read through the many many thoughtful pages of this vast knowledgeable Web Site by two very good Researches of high calibre. I will put a few things on about the Boss Boswells then I will carry on with my Research for the Herons

michael
Riley Boss and his wife Lucy are my 3rd great grandparents but I am also related to the Hearn, Heron/ Young Family.....this is interesting. Eric Trudgill has been very helpful too as well as Anne. I find your posts here informative. Most my research has been found on my family after arriving in the USA. My great great grandfather Frampton Young came to America from England in 1855. My gg grandfather Samson Boss ( Son Of Riley and Lucy Boss) came to America as well as his Mother in the 1860’s . Thank you for posting this information.
Here is a marriage certificate of My gg grandfather Frampton’s youngest son Nathan and Pinkney, married in the USA.

[panished]

Helo Daisy, wow that's a great name, you are related to the Gipsies alright, you should write up a story of your thoughts and put in on here for your Relations of tomorrow, you should do it, no need to think just write, let your soul talk, one day you will be gone and only strangers will talk for you, tell of your life, tell of all who you ever listened to, just say anything, it will be your words and true words, in hundreds of yeares time people will talk of Daisy, i have tryed my best to be right by your People

 

[panished]

Hi Daisy

 Thank you for the p.m, I will carry on trying to learn and share what i know and find about your Familys, there are people who know much more than me in their Family history, maybe one day someone will p.m. you or write on here, i will look for more information of the genealogyical times of your Familys Family

[panished]

Hi Daisy   

William died in 1843 in the report I put on a few pagers back, I also found this report from 1845, this William could be a relative, it may be a false clue but do not be put of by the word tramp, I have been writing about fake writings long before the American President, nearly every one of the writers of Gipsies over hundreds of years either hated them or used them to write a kind of fiction, i put a few records on to show you some real stories to help you to understand
 
Friday 07 February 1845
  Stamford Mercury
  Lincolnshire 
 
On Tuesday last, before Major Warrand, Inspector Caldwell charged Wm. Boss (a tramp) with passing base coin : he was discharged for want of evidence

Friday 05 June 1868
  Derbyshire Advertiser and Journal
Derbyshire

Uriah Sheriff and Dinah Boswell, both tramping mendicants, were brought up in custody having been found sleeping in an outhouse at Duffield, at three o’clock in the morning, and not having any visible means of subsistence, and not giving a good account of themselves.— They were each committed to gaol for 14 days
 
Mendicant
Depending on alms for a living; practicing begging.
  Of or relating to religious orders whose members are forbidden to own property individually or in common and must work or beg for their living
mendīcāre, to beg, from mendīcus, needy, beggar, from mendum,  Middle English: from Latin mendicant- ‘begging’, from the verb mendicare, from mendicus ‘beggar’, from mendum ‘fault’.

 Saturday 03 February 1866
 Rugby Advertiser
  Warwickshire 

Henry Boswell. Eli Boswell, and Thomas Boswell, three brothers, tramping tinkers, were charged with sleeping in an outhouse at Barby. P. C. Adkins said about twelve o'clock Sunday night last, I found the prisoners  sleeping in some outhouses at Barby. Thomas Boswell bit his hand, and resisted me. It appeared Henry had very recently left prison, where he had been for two years. There were several convictions against him. Eli had been once before convicted
 
Tuesday 04 March 1879
  Daily Gazette for Middlesbrough
  Yorkshire 

There has just died at the Doncaster Workhonse a pauper, named Elijah Lee, who is believed to have been 104 years of age. Deceased, who had been a gipsy hawker
   
Wednesday 14 June 1899
 Derby Daily Telegraph
  Derbyshire 

James Lovell, a little lad, was charged with wandering abroad and lodging in the open air without having any visible means of subsistence 
   
Wednesday 16 August 1899
  Derby Mercury
  Derbyshire 

James Lovell (16), who has neither parents nor home, was charged with wandering abroad on the Burton Road shortly after mid-night
   
 
 Wednesday 21 June 1899
  Derby Mercury
  Derbyshire 

James Lovell was charged with wandering abroad in St. Peter's Street late last night   
     
Wednesday 12 July 1899
  Derby Mercury
  Derbyshire 

 James Lovell, a lad, was charged with vagrancy in Full Street early on Sunday morning, Police-constable shickell found the lad, who is a gipsy without any parents. He was before the Court on the 14th. Lovell now said he had been working sorting scrap iron, but had not been fit on Saturday, and had not gone to work. He said he would go to the workhouse for a while and was discharged on that understanding
 

 Wednesday 21 March 1928
Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer
 Yorkshire

Gipsies Life Yeadon Moor.
Six Children who cannot read or count.
Jumping like a Fox.

A family of six Gipsy children ignorant of the alphabet, and unable to evan count, was cited in a charge of neglect, parents were Richard and ann Smith living in a tent on Yeadon Moor, it was stated that it was not a fit place to live in and described in a terrible manner, it was stated in the defence of the Mother that she did as much as she could and would go out Hawking lace and cloth-pegs, it was not suggested that the children were under-nourished, but their personal condition was filthy. Pending the hearing of this case, the children were taken to the Otley Work-House, Dr. Hislop said the condition of the hut was not fit for animals and he saw a child jumping around like a fox. In defence it was said that their manner of life could not be judged according to the ordinary standards of society, Yeadon Moor had been the resort of Gipsies from time immemorial, and according to the male defendant his father was born there. The Chairman said it was obvious that the parents could not maintain the whole family. Out of consideration to the Mother, the Bench proposed to let her still have the custody of the three younger children, and the Officer of the N.S.P.C.C. would keep an eye on their treatment. The parents would be bound over, and the four elder children would be transferred to the care of Dr. Barnardo’s Holmes.


  Friday 28 September 1894
  Derbyshire Advertiser and Journal
 Derbyshire
 
The Matlock police surprised Mr. Harry Booth and Mrs, Elizabeth Booth, by paying a visit to their temporary home at Tansley Moor, on Monday night last. The Booths, who are of the gipsy class, were sleeping on the wild moor, with the children. The police took the father and mother into costody and it is said that a charge will be preferred against them under the Prevention of Cruelty to Children Act. Some people in the vicinity kindly took the children into their homes. and gave them beds, other than cinders, for the remainder of the night

[panished]

 
I hope everyone has had a merry Christmas and a good year to you all   


In my research for the Familys named Heron i came across Amos Heron, i found him below stopping on some land owned by a very interesting man named William West, the Boswells were stopping on the land of Wests to, this more than likley is one of the old stopping placers that as long since gone, they say in the information i found below that the Wests came up from Essex from the 1800s, then i found the Boswells stopping on that old stopping ground at Hale Moss, they are all around Lancashire, does anyone know if the Wests are related to the Herons and Boswells, so in these storys below i found Amos Heron and the Boswells, it was in my research for the times of world war one, then through this i found out about the Wests from Essex who own the land the Herons and Boswells stopped on, i wonder who the Wests are, then over at Hide Moss the BossBoswells are there to

[panished]

  on the record for Amos it says Black Castle Inn Oswaldtwistle, it should say at the Back of the Castle Inn in Oswaldtwistle Accrington Lancashire, this just goes to show you how records from the past are wrote wrong at times by people who just make honest mistakes, through reading thousands of records like i do you get to see the bigger picture and then you may see through the mistaks, i suppose i make my own fair share of mistakes to,  through finding out about Amos Heron i then went on to find out about the land called Oswaldtwistle when i put Amos and the Boswells in the storys on the world war one posts i will talk more of these things, again if anyone can give me any information about Amos i would welcome you to write it down here same for the Boswells and the Wests and anyone in these storys, if you go back to page one and on the seconed post you may read about Amos Heron, there all the same peoples i would say the Boss Boswells Herons plus more names

if you click on the link below you will find duncan-square-oswaldtwistle it is on the Union road, the union road is were the Castle Inn was, just zoom in and out to find your bearings

https://addressesandpostcodes.co.uk/address/2WMc6Bk7/the-green-duncan-square-oswaldtwistle-accrington-bb5-0ew.html


                                      Absentees under the Military service act

Tuesday 30 October 1917
 Police Gazette
  London
 
Amos Heron age 24 trade a travling Gipsy 
last known address Black Castle Inn Oswaldtwistle
desertion 31 March 16 Accrington


Tuesday 08 January 1918
 Police Gazette
  London

 Rabbi Boswell  age 35 trade a hawker
last known address Duncan square Oswaldtwistle
desertion 7 July Accrington

Emporer Boss age 27 trade a hawker
last known address Duncan square Oswaldtwistle
desertion 27 June Accrington

Eddie Boswell age 22 trade a hawker
last know address Bck Castle Inn Oswaldtwistle
desertion 18 December Accrington

Hurbert Bass age 25 trade a hawker
last known address Duncan square green Oswaldtwistle
desertion 26 June  Accrington 

[panished]

these storys below is for you all to see the bigger picture read through them and know of the times and peoples through the early mid 1900s, learn of Lancashire and the places the Gipsies stoped on, pass the information on to people related to the ones i find so they will know of the liifes of their ancesters, also does anyone know the history of the Wests 

Wednesday 19 March 1913
 Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire

CARAVAN FUNERAL.

HEARSE DRAWN BY SIX HORSES. After spending sixty-nine years in a caravan and amassing considerable wealth Mr. W. West recently purchased land in Oswaldtwistle and it is a permanent abiding place for several of his caravans. There his death took place, and yesterday the funeral procession left Oswaldtwistle for Astley Bridge, near Bolton. The hearse was drawn by six Belgian horses, the leaders carrying postillions, and following twenty coaches containing  mourners from various towns Lancashire, Yorkshire and Durnam.  After Mr. West’s death a Union Jack was hoisted half-mast  on the caravan, which was visited by hundreds of people. Born in a caravan in Essex, Mr. West was the Son of travelling hawkers of the Romany type, and he had travelled all over Great Britain. His caravan was luxuriously furnished, and he owned considerable property in Bolton







Friday 21 March 1913
  Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
  Lancashire

 FUNERAL.

REMARKABLE DISPLAY'AT HAWKER'S INTERMENT. A funeral which for elaborate ceremonial has rarely been equalled in Lancashire took place at Astley Bridge, Bolton, on Tuesday. The remains were those of Mr. W. West, who had spent the whole of the 69 years of age in his life a caravan, and he amassed considerable wealth. The funeral procession started from Oswaldtwistle, and in the hearse were six fine Belgian horses, the leaders mounted by postillions, and following came no fewer than twenty carriage containg mourners from many parts of Lancashire, Yorkshire, and Durham. The coffin was of black oak, lead lined, with silver mountings, and the whole funeral was carried out on a most extensive scale. Mr. West was born in a caravan in Essex, his parents being travelling hawkers and dealers and he had wandered all over England, Scotland, and Wales, but during the last years had spent the greater part of  his time in Lancashire, and was often to be found in the Lake District. His caravan was luxuriously furnished and bore some  beautiful carvings upon its exterior. Some time ago Mr. West purchased a valuable piece of land at Oswaldtwistle, and there established  the headquarters for his caravan. He had also a considerable amount of property in Bolton. He had six sons and three daughters, all whom follow the  example of their parents in being van dwellers. During the time the body has lain in the coffin in the caravan, the place has been visited by hundreds of people. Attached to the caravan was a flag pole, and upon this the Union Jack was floated half-mast. It was no easy matter to trace relatives and friends who were to be invited to the funeral, and to enable this to be this to be done something like £5 was spent on telegrams alone
 

  Saturday 22 March 1913
  Burnley News
  Lancashire

 
GIPSY FUNERAL.

IMPOSING CEREMONY AT OSWALDTWISTLE. imposing gipsy funeral took place, on Tuesday, the deceased being William West, (69), who for some time had lived in his caravan on a plot of land behind the Castle Inn, Oswaldtwistle. West purchased this land at considerable cost in order that he might remain there undisturbed. He was a person of considerable wealth, owning property in Bolton, and was held in esteem by the members of the Romany tribe. There was a large gather of gipsies, for the funeral, most them being attired in black, although a few of the older men wore their working clothes. The body was enclosed in a Oak coffin, lead lined, with silver mountings. An open-air service was held near the caravan, and the coffin afterwards placed in a  hearse horses, with a postillion. Then came a open landau filled with wreaths, a prominent place being occupied by a floral crown, which symbolised the high position held by West in a particular branch of the tribe Following the landau were twenty mourning coaches, which were frequently added to by relatives and other gipsies who joined the funeral procession to Astley Bridge, near Bolton, where the interment took place. Whilst the body lay in the caravan the union Jack was flown over it at half-mast. West was a general dealer by trade, and had travelled over the Kingdom

[panished]

 
Tuesday 30 September 1913
 Globe
  London

 HAWKER’S FORTUNE.

Mr. William West, described as of “Back of Castle Inn,” Oswaldtwistle, Accrington, Lancs, hawker, who had lived the whole his life in a caravan, and who in intestate, left an estate of the gross value of £4,462. His widow. Mrs. Sarah West, having  renounced administration of the property, letters of administration thereof have been granted to the heir-at-law. Mr. Samuel Gripper West, licensed hawker,   Back of Castle Inn


Friday 03 October 1913
 Shipley Times and Express
  Yorkshire
 
STRONG PASSION FOR A CARAVAN.
Described as hawker, of “the back Castle Inn,” Oswaldtwistle. Accrington, Lancashire. Mr. William West, who died on March 13 last at the ago of 69. left an estate of the gross value of £4462, and letters of administration have  been granted to the heir-at-law. Mr. Samuel Griper West, a licensed hawker, also described  as of “the back of Castle Inn,” Oswaldtwistle. During tho whole of his life Mr. West had lived in a caravan His business prospered he came tobe  one of  the best-known travelling hawkers in Lancashire, and according to reports he acquired considerable property in that county, but nevertheless nothing could induce him to desert his beloved caravan. His faithful horse and his comfortable vehicular home, with its well-polished array of stockin-trade clinging to the exterior in every conceivable position appealed to him more than any erection of bricks and mortar such he could have afforded to inhabit. He was a witty soul, and the brisk sale of his goods in market towns on market days proceeded with a joviality worthy of the happier moments of Dickens’s “Dr. Marigold.” 

 
  Wednesday 17 December 1924
  Lancashire Evening Post
  Lancashire



  Oswaldtwistle MOTOR DRIVER  Accrington, living in a caravan in Duncan aquare. Oswaldtwistle, was summoned for driving a motor van at a  speed dangerous to the public The Chief Constable said defendant came down the Manchester-road ..........hitching, pipe fitter, 46. Bold-street, said he saw the van strike something……….       Detective Clements said that when he saw defendant on December 7th he said he did not remember killing a dog, and said did not travel at a fast speed. Defendant denied that he could Have been going at more than 15 mile an hour, and called his uncle Walter West, and his father, william West, who all agreed that nothing was known of a dog being run over or of any signal being given to stop. The Mayor, imposing a fine of 40s and the costs of wltnesses, said the magistrates were much concerned about the driving of motors down the Manchester-road steep desent. and he hoped the driving public would take notice of it