Difference between a Carter and Van Driver - early 1900s

[Stephen Rose]

Hi everyone

My great grandfather was a Coal Carter in Oldham in the late 1800s, then listed as a Carter in 1901 census. He died in 1909.

In 1937 his job was described as a "Van Driver" on his son's marriage certificate.

I'm wondering if the term Van Driver was around in 1909 or whether this was a 1937 term used to describe a Carter (ie same job but the language had evolved)

If Van Driver was a job in 1909, how was this job different to a Carter?

Looking forward to hearing any thoughts and thanks in advance
Stephen

[hallmark]

Motorized versus Non Motorized


?

[Cazza47]

In my book a dictionary of old trades titles & occupations a carter is listed as 'a man in charge of a cart', a van driver is described as 'a driver of a small horse drawn delivery truck, later a small motorised vehicle for carrying goods'

[mazi]

Welcome to rootschat, Stephen

As hallmark has said in 1901 a Carter would use a horse and cart to move goods around, by the 1930s he could do the same thing with a motor vehicle.

Mike

[Ray T]

Some carts didn't have a seat for the "driver" and he/(she?) walked alongside the horse. Could this be the difference? I'm sure the carter/driver wasn't particularly bothered what they were enumerated as on the census.

[philipsearching]

In all the records I have seen c1901-1911

Carter - in charge of a horse and cart
Carman - usually for early motorised wagons
Driver - not really in general use much before the Great War (except for railway locomotives).

"Driver" almost exclusively refers to motorised vehicles (e.g. cabman for horse or motor, cab driver for motor)

Philip

[Maiden Stone]

Welcome to rootschat, Stephen

As hallmark has said in 1901 a Carter would use a horse and cart to move goods around, by the 1930s he could do the same thing with a motor vehicle.

Mike

He died in 1909 so he couldn't move anything around in 1937 unless you count "pushing up daisies".
Were there likely to have been motorised vans in his town by 1909? Perhaps he'd swapped the horse for an engine.

There was an enquiry about a "car driver" on  1901 or 1911 Irish census. He was one of many. We concluded he drove a jaunting-car which is horse-drawn.

[Maiden Stone]

Definition of van in my dictionary is a covered vehicle for carrying goods. It doesn't specify motorised. Lorry in same dictionary is "long low sideless wagon; motor truck for transporting goods &c" ("Pocket Oxford Dictionary") I surmise from those definitions that a van was not necessarily motorised.
How old was the son when his father died? He may have recalled only that his father was a driver, not what type of vehicle he drove. Alternatively the son may have thought that the occupation van driver sounded better than carter or coalman.

Internet search for horse-drawn vans pictures shows a large selection.

[stanmapstone]

A Van Driver, aka van man; drives a horse-drawn van used for collection and delivery of small goods; duties as for carman; sometimes specifically designated. e.g. delivery van driver, mail van driver, parcels van driver. "A Dictionary of Occupational Terms"
The term carter,  as well as haulier, carman, carrier, can all refer to people in charge of horse drawn vehicles, a person engaged in the road transport of goods, either on his/her own account or for an employer.
There is also Drayman, Wherry Man, Van Man, Lurry or Lorry Man, Teamster, all who were people in charge of horse drawn vehicles, for the transport of goods.

Stan