Author Topic: Second opinion needed on the children of Edmund Marsden (1785-1850, Darwen)  (Read 256 times)

Offline Aulus

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Second opinion needed on the children of Edmund Marsden (1785-1850, Darwen)
« on: Sunday 16 September 18 23:36 BST (UK) »
For a friend, I have been looking at the family of Timothy Marsden (c.1755-1829) & Jane Ainsworth (c. 1755-1828) who married at Blackburn St Mary on 3 Nov 1776.

By way of introduction (if you don't want to read, skip down to the bold bit below where I get round to asking my question! ;D)

They seem to have been based in/around Eccleshill and Lower Darwen, specifically at Oakenhurst (Jeremy Hunt mentions the family and calls the elder Timothy Marsden "Timothy Marsden o' th' Oakenhurst," but does not go into any great detail on them, unfortunately.)

There are several trees on Ancestry, most of which seem to have been copied from each other, but a couple have images of an early 19th century Family Bible, will birth and death dates of Timothy & Jane, and their children, most of which is supported by the registers of Darwen's Lower Chapel. This all seemed quite easy, and indeed it is.

But I am a little stuck on the children on Edmund Marsden, born 21 Jun 1785 and died 24 Oct 1850.  Edmund appears to have married twice: first, to Alice Nightingale 13/7/1805 and second to Ellen Aspin (or Aspden?) 11 Feb 1823.
He had three children with Ellen: Ann (15 Aug 1824), Edmund Ainsworth (8 Aug 1826) and John (2 Feb 1831).
There are 9 births to Edmund & Alice Marsden 1806-1823 in the Lower Chapel registers, which most of the trees on Ancestry accept as belonging to the same couple.  But I don't think that can be the case, and is what I would like other Rootschatter's opinion on, please.  I think there are two families here:
1) Esther, Sarah, Peggy are children of Edmund & Alice Marsden who are on the 1841 census at Cadshaw
2) John (1809), Ellen, Timothy are the children of Edmund Marsden & Alice Nightingale of Oakenhurst/Lower Darwen, plus Henry and Thomas whose mother is identified on the register as Alice Nightingale.
That just leaves the 1814 John Marsden - the only one below to be baptised at Pole Lane (the rest are all at Lower Chapel).

I would appreciate others' view on this.


Esther Marsden
    Bapt: 7 Dec 1808
    Born: 4 Oct
    Abode: Catchey

John Marsden
    Bapt: 8 Aug 1809
    Born: 10 May
    Abode: Lr. Darwen

If I remember my O Level Biology classes properly, I don't think Esther & John could be born to the same mother, or at least John would have been a bit premature, wouldn't he?

Does anyone know where Catchey is/was?  Could it be another 'phonetic spelling' for Catshaw (which is shown as Cadshaw on the early OS maps, and is just to the west of Bull Hospital a couple of miles south of Darwen).

Sarah Marsden
    Bapt: 16 Aug 1810
    Born: 29 Jun
    Abode: Catchey

Ellen Marsden
    Bapt: 8 Mar 1812
    Born: 18 Nov
    Abode: Hey Croft

Peggy Marsden
    Bapt: 13 May 1813
    Born: 27 Aug
    Abode: Catshaw

Timothy Marsden
    Bapt: 10 Apr 1814
    Born: 24 Feb 1814
    Abode: Aycroft Lower Darwen

John Marsden
    Baptised 3 Oct 1814 at Pole Lane Chapel
 
Henry Marsden [Mother named as Alice Nightingale]
    Bapt: 29 Sep 1816
    Born: 17 Aug 1816
    Abode: High Croft Lower Darwen

Thomas Marsden [Mother named as Alice Nightingale]
    Bapt: 24 Aug 1818
    Born: 3 Jul 1818
    Abode: High Croft Lower Darwen


Do you think Aycroft/Heycroft/High Croft might be Earcroft on the old OS maps? Just to the west of Oakenhurst. (Both are pretty much underneath Junction 4 of the M65.)
Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson
Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith
East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton
East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge
Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens
Marylebone & Sussex: Cole
London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman
Bowland: Marsden, Noble
Shropshire: Guest

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Radcliff

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Re: Second opinion needed on the children of Edmund Marsden (1785-1850, Darwen)
« Reply #1 on: Monday 17 September 18 21:48 BST (UK) »


I don't see another marriage other than the 1806 to Alice Nightingale for Edmund
and then a possible marriAge to Ellen Aspin in 1823 as he is a widower
the fact they use a different Chapel can not discount John as their son,
is there a will for Edmund In the archives
Gunning County Down,Kneale Isle of Man,Riddle Tynemouth,Bibby Kendal/Bradford,Colenso Penzance/Barrow-in-Furness,Steele Corney Fell,Chapman Ely,Dawes Alfreton,Blamire Westmoreland and Ulverston
Dislike the use of P Messaging system, unless its of a sensitive nature, Rootschat is  an open forum,

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Offline Radcliff

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Re: Second opinion needed on the children of Edmund Marsden (1785-1850, Darwen)
« Reply #2 on: Monday 17 September 18 23:19 BST (UK) »
Townsend Chapel
built by the Reverand Henry Townsend in 1806 when he resigned from Pole Lane perhaps Edmund wanted to keep friendly with the old congregation he would have worshiped with when he was younger
Gunning County Down,Kneale Isle of Man,Riddle Tynemouth,Bibby Kendal/Bradford,Colenso Penzance/Barrow-in-Furness,Steele Corney Fell,Chapman Ely,Dawes Alfreton,Blamire Westmoreland and Ulverston
Dislike the use of P Messaging system, unless its of a sensitive nature, Rootschat is  an open forum,

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Second opinion needed on the children of Edmund Marsden (1785-1850, Darwen)
« Reply #3 on: Monday 17 September 18 23:41 BST (UK) »
I'm doubtful about John 1809. If he was premature would he have survived?
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Second opinion needed on the children of Edmund Marsden (1785-1850, Darwen)
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 18 September 18 02:18 BST (UK) »
Have you considered an Edmund & Alice Marsden who had children baptised at Egerton Chapel?
11th June 1817 Jennet, abode Clough in Darwen. Also Mary 1822 and Nancy 1825, no abode stated. (LAN OPC) I don't see another Edmund & Alice wedding.
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Second opinion needed on the children of Edmund Marsden (1785-1850, Darwen)
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 18 September 18 02:51 BST (UK) »
There was a lot of disruption and factionalism in Darwen's NC chapels 1790s -1820 and consequently unreliable registers. Read about each chapel and each register in Darwen parish section on Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website for explanations. Brief summary as I understand it:
Lower Chapel was originally known as Heys Chapel. Rev. Smalley died 1791, succeeded by his son who was unpopular with some of the congregation.
Pole Lane Independent 1793-1822 was built by several families who broke away from Lower Chapel. Rev. Townsend was first minister. He was ejected 1806. He refused to hand over the registers when he left.
Townsend Chapel was founded by Rev. Townsend and several former members of Pole Lane Chapel and opened 1808.
Congregations of Pole Lane and Townsend chapels amalgamated. Townsend Chapel was enlarged and was renamed Ebenezer Chapel in 1822. Pole Lane Chapel closed but graveyard was used until 1850s.
There are 3 registers for baptisms at Pole Lane, Townsend and Ebenezer chapels during the period from late 18th century to 1822. One was compiled from recollections of families, since Rev. Townsend had taken original register when he left Pole Lane. This compilation is in 2 sections; 1st a type of census of families; 2nd a more traditional baptism register.
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Second opinion needed on the children of Edmund Marsden (1785-1850, Darwen)
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 18 September 18 03:10 BST (UK) »
Burials register of Lower Chapel, Darwen for period from 1793 and for first 2 decades of 19thC is unreliable. No burials recorded from September 1793 for several years. Over 50 burials were entered for 12th April 1814, many children with no forenames, but also named people. Then follows a note  "About 200 children stillborn and not baptised were interred in the chapel yard in the past year."

Another note after a burial dated 7th Jan. 1816 "No regular accounts of funerals being kept this year. These interrments are set down from memory. Perhaps some are omitted during this year. The dates cannot be authenticated?" This was followed by a few burials for 1816, then those for 1814 including the 50+ dated 12th April.
Cowban