Author Topic: died 1862 but probate calendar date not until 1904! Why?  (Read 913 times)

Offline LindseyC

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died 1862 but probate calendar date not until 1904! Why?
« on: Thursday 20 September 18 01:30 BST (UK) »
Hello,

I have been contacted by someone with whom I share a common ancestor - Abraham Seaman - and together we have found that he died in 1862 but the probate calendar date is 1904. The probate states that Abraham left his daughter Emma Larkin almost 600.00, but it seems no one else in his family benefited.

Abraham was according to Census records born around 1785 in Heybridge near Maldon, then moved to West Ham at some point. While he did marry Emma's mother in Heybridge, we can't find a convincing birth record for him.

We have 2 questions -

Why would probate take so long from the date of his death?

How could a carpenter in East London end up with the best part of 600.00?

Any help with answering the above, or any other information that could be useful would be very much appreciated.

I would note that if anyone looks up the Census records, you will find it states his birth place as Abridge, but this is in a different part of Essex to Maldon where his wife and children were born, whereas Heybridge is now part of Maldon. We both think it was a case of Abraham dropping his "H's" when the census was taken.

Thanks very much,

Lindsey



US - Paton

Scotland - Paton, MacKenzie, Morrison, Urquhart, Bryce, Lindsay, Izett, Ferrier, Crawfurd, Strath,
England - Williams, Jones, Whitnall, Abbott, Rayner, Rowden, Hawker, Northcote, Seaman

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Offline BushInn1746

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Re: died 1862 but probate calendar date not until 1904! Why?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 20 September 18 02:02 BST (UK) »
Hello,

 ... and together we have found that he died in 1862 but the probate calendar date is 1904.

Why would probate take so long from the date of his death?



Possibly, because no Executor claimed Probate (with a Will), or no Next of Kin claimed Administration (when no Will exists), shortly after death.

Possibly no other Beneficiary or Government Dept (say for Tax purposes) made a Legal challenge, or didn't want to challenge in Court.

Possibly the only 'Heir at Law' lived in a house the deceased owned and continued to live there.

 ----------

Where two claims appear in Calendars for the same deceased and death date ...

They did claim Probate or Administration, but never completed the process.

A first Probate was only partly dealt with and a second Claim for Probate (a Second Grant) was made later regarding remaining assets.


Mark
"George HOOD of Selby" Before 1812?

Born about 1785 (Yorkshire per 1841 Census)

Married Sarah RUSSELL at Selby 1815 newspaper - "both of that place".

Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

George HOOD of Selby was refused Membership of the Quakers in 1836.

Elected Overseer of the Poor of Selby in 1838.

Had both known (Selby) and unknown (some not stated 1846) property interests.

Possible (but unknown) links to COOK and/or PEARSON names.

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Offline Mckha489

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Re: died 1862 but probate calendar date not until 1904! Why?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 20 September 18 06:20 BST (UK) »
Had you noticed the Elizabeth Ann SEAMANS of Baker Street Nottingham who died 29 Nov 1858
admin ie no will - also to Emma LARKIN on 24 May 1904.

Abraham's is an Admin too.

Elizabeth Ann - is she nee Matthews who married Joshua George SEAMANS in 1828. 2 children Joshua George and Elizabeth Ann.  No I  think she died 1851

There is a will for Joshua George on Ancestry - probate 1855 - he names his wife as Martha and one of the executors is William Attenborough.  Joshua George married Martha ATTENBOROUGH Maldon 1853.
He leaves his pianoforte to his daughter Elizabeth Ann.    No mention of son Joshua George who I think died in 1853

Is it Elizabeth Ann the younger who died in Nottingham?  she would have been only 17. 

If so, that would wipe out that branch of the family (if Martha didn't have any children between 1853 and 1855)

How long did Martha live for? The will is the usual hard to read clerical hand but I think it provides for Martha during her widowhood, and for children, but there is just one son born, in 1854, Robert Attenborough SEAMANS and he died in 1855 as well. Which just leaves Elizabeth Ann and she didn't reach 21.

The money was in trust, so my suspicion would be that eventually they had to sort out the trust and to do that, Emma had to get administration for the other two deaths. 

So - That's a theory anyway.


Added
In 1861 Martha is with her Aunt and Uncle EGGLESTON  Keyworth, Nottinghamshire age 42, a widow  (Aunt was an Attenborough)  which might fit with Elizabeth Ann having died in Nottingham in 1858
 


 
currently concentrating on NUTCHER & MARSHALL families, Hampshire.
and family of Thomas ANDERSON a Tailor of Perth, Scotland

Offline Mckha489

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Re: died 1862 but probate calendar date not until 1904! Why?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 20 September 18 06:49 BST (UK) »
I think I've got this right, but complicated by fact I think William VOCE had a first wife also named Martha

Martha SEAMANS married William VOCE Nottingham 1867
She died da dah!  August 1903

Added
She had a will.  Might be worth spending the 10 and getting it.
currently concentrating on NUTCHER & MARSHALL families, Hampshire.
and family of Thomas ANDERSON a Tailor of Perth, Scotland

Online rosie99

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Re: died 1862 but probate calendar date not until 1904! Why?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 20 September 18 07:09 BST (UK) »
Hello,

I have been contacted by someone with whom I share a common ancestor - Abraham Seaman - and together we have found that he died in 1862 but the probate calendar date is 1904. The probate states that Abraham left his daughter Emma Larkin almost 600.00, but it seems no one else in his family benefited.


Do you have the copy of the probate, the probate calendar will just show the name of the executor /administrator who may not necessarily be a benefactor
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Offline ozigal

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Re: died 1862 but probate calendar date not until 1904! Why?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 20 September 18 07:40 BST (UK) »
The relevant 1904 probate record actually states-

SEAMANS Abraham of Francis-street Stratford Essex died 18 April 1862 Administration London 19 April to Emma Larkin Widow Effects 595 8s. 6d.

This does not mean that Emma actually received any, all or part of the said amount. She was simply the administrator of the effects mentioned.

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: died 1862 but probate calendar date not until 1904! Why?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 20 September 18 09:47 BST (UK) »
Hello

To apply and get ADMINISTRATION Granted to you, you had to be NEXT OF KIN to the Deceased (in a set order), or the Legal Representative acting for the Next of Kin (and both names appear in the Calendar).

And also the deceased person left no Will, meaning they died Intestate.

 ----------

A thorough knowledge of your family tree, should hopefully clear up your query.

Applying for post 1858 Administrations, often don't give much more away, unless it says Administration with Will.

But as Family Historians, we should always endeavour to obtain the original paperwork, to check for any comment.

 ----------

I applied for two delayed 1880 England Administrations. I was already aware that three Sisters (all Spinsters) had died from 1853 to 1855.

The Mother of the 3 Daughters (dying 1853 to 1855) died in 1879 and had obviously kept items belonging to two of her late Daughters (who had no Children). When their Mother died 1879, the Spinsters Brother claimed Administration in 1880.


There was a Legal 'pecking order', as it were.

Administrators, had to follow the Law and not their emotions.

My comments are not Legal Advice

 -----------


This is quite interesting
https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will


Mark
"George HOOD of Selby" Before 1812?

Born about 1785 (Yorkshire per 1841 Census)

Married Sarah RUSSELL at Selby 1815 newspaper - "both of that place".

Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

George HOOD of Selby was refused Membership of the Quakers in 1836.

Elected Overseer of the Poor of Selby in 1838.

Had both known (Selby) and unknown (some not stated 1846) property interests.

Possible (but unknown) links to COOK and/or PEARSON names.

Offline LizzieL

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Re: died 1862 but probate calendar date not until 1904! Why?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 20 September 18 12:13 BST (UK) »
Theres a Joshua Seamans in 1851 in Maldon


Joshua Seamans Head  54 b abt 1797 Carpenter Employing 1 Man born Heybridge, Essex, 
Sarah Seamans Wife  58 b abt 1793  born Braintree, Essex
George Seamans Son  20 b abt 1831 Carpenter born Maldon, Essex
Julia Helen King Grand Daughter  7 b abt 1844 Scholar born Marylebone, Middx

Could this Joshua be Abraham's brother? - same pob Abridge / Heybridge, occupations often run in families, similar age, biblical names
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline Mckha489

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Re: died 1862 but probate calendar date not until 1904! Why?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 20 September 18 12:29 BST (UK) »
The Joshua George I was referring to is  in Maldon in 1841

High Street. Joshua G SEAMANS 33  Clothier
Elizabeth 32
Priscilla 7
Joshua G 4

in 1851 High Street, All Saints Maldon 
Joshua Geo SEAMANS 43 b Maldon  Cabinet Maker and Clothier
Elizabeth Ann  wife 43
Joshua Geo son 14
Elizabeth Ann 8  all born Maldon

I am sure they must all be connected somehow.





currently concentrating on NUTCHER & MARSHALL families, Hampshire.
and family of Thomas ANDERSON a Tailor of Perth, Scotland