Author Topic: Will of Thomas Aylmer 1500  (Read 6313 times)

Offline WillowG

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Re: Will of Thomas Aylmer 1500
« Reply #36 on: Tuesday 25 September 18 23:33 BST (UK) »
"Excursions in the County of Norfolk" by Thomas Kitson Cromwell.
p.11: the first stone of Norwich cathedral was laid by Bishop Herbert commonly know as Herbert de Losinga in 1096.
p.12: the justly celebrated pile was not completed until the year 1430, under the Presidency of Bishop Aylmer, 346 years after its commencement.

So there was another Bishop Aylmer besides John Aylmer (1521-1594)) of Aylmer Hall, Tivetshall St Margaret, Bishop of London.

You probably know this already but I didn't.

And Aylmer seems to go back at least to Ailmaric de Berriles or Beziles who was granted Beziles, or Boylands Manor in 1272. Sir Aylmer or Ailmaric, died in 1279. Boyland's manor (the one in question as there are 3 in Norfolk) is in Morningthorpe, which is about 2 km east of Long Stratton.
francoso

That is very interesting! No, a third Bishop Aylmer in 1430, in addition to Bishop Ailmer in 1070 and Bishop John Aylmer (1521-1594), was complete news to me! I will have to do some digging :)

That is extremely interesting about Boylandes and that it was so long in the Aylmer family!!! :) :D :)

Do you know how long Boylandes remained in the Thetford family, or to Christopher Thetford?

Offline WillowG

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Re: Will of Thomas Aylmer 1500
« Reply #37 on: Tuesday 25 September 18 23:37 BST (UK) »
Willow: just a few specifics.

1. https://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol4
City of Norwich, chapter 42: The Great Ward of Mancroft, St. Peter of Mancroft
(69) St. Peter of Mancroft.

The following inscriptions are in the nave; and first of those on brass plates, beginning at the most eastern part, just by the step out of the chancel, lies a large stone, having the effigies of a mayor in his robes, between his two wives; by the first wife are the effigies of her children, two boys and two girls; and by the second four girls; it being placed here in memory of Richard Aylmer, mayor in 1511, son of Robert Aylmer, who was mayor in 1481, and 1492, and Joan his first wife; he died in 1512. This inscription is printed in Weever's Funeral Monuments, fo. 802, as imperfect, though it is legible at this day:
Aylmer Ricardus Procerum de stipite natus, Is quondam Maior Urbis, iacet hic tumulatus, Hatis cum prima atque suis Consorte Johanna, Moribus ornatus, Bonus omnibus atque benignus, Anno Milleno, D, bind, cum duodeno, Jous semtembris trino, migrabit ob orbe. O bone Christe Thesu, fons bite, spes, Medicina, Votis inclina, te quesumus aure Benigna, Ut sibi sit Requies, bibat terum sine fine.

2. Notices of the merchants' marks in the city of Norwich. Ewing, William Creasy. p.11
p.11, 8.-1494. Richard Aylmer, Grocer. (?)
p.17, 7.-1493. Robert Aylmer, Mayor in 1481 and 1492. This mark, with his initials, is in several of the South windows in the clerestory. His gravestone, dated 1493, lies under the font.
p.43, 16.-1506. Richard Aylmer, Grocer, Mayor in 1511. He was buried at the East end of the nave in 1512. On a seal to a deed dated 1506.

3. A Compleat History of the Famous City of Norwich, from the Earliest ...
p.13, 1482 William Aylmer, Mayor; 1492 Richard Aylmer, Mayor; 1511 Richard Aylmer, Mayor; 1471 Robert Aylmer, Sherriff; 1501 Richard Aylmer, Sherriff;
p.14, 1536 Thomas Thetford, Sherriff.

4. A Daring Dynasty, Conflict and Control in Early-Tudor England by Mark R. Horowitz
p. 129/130 and footnote 101.

francoso

Yes, I believe that this is our Aylmers of Norwich family :) I am wondering if Richard Aylmer, Grocer (d.1494), could be the father of our Robert Aylmer (d.1493), and thus the grandfather of Richard Aylmer (d.1512) and Thomas Aylmer (d.1500), our testator?

What you mention about:

1482 William Aylmer, Mayor

- is very interesting. It ties together with this that Bookbox was kind enough to translate for me:

for the souls of John and Robert Aylmer, once Mayors of the City of Norwich.

Robert Aylmer must be the one who died in 1493, the father of Richard Aylmer (d.1512), also Mayor of Norwich and Thomas Aylmer (d.1500), our testator, but this John Aylmer is a complete mystery, except that I can find a John Aylmer on a list of Freemen of Norwich.

John Aylemer        Leche        16,17,&18H.VI

16 Henry VI   1 Sept 1437
17 Henry VI   1 Sept 1438
18 Henry VI   1 Sept 1439
19 Henry VI   1 Sept 1440

Calendar of the Freemen of Norwich from 1317 to 1603 (Edward II to Elizabeth inclusive) by John L'Estrange (1888)
https://archive.org/stream/freemennorwich1317#page/n25/search/Aylemer

Thanks to heywood and Bookbox we now know that: Leche - physician or healer. One who ‘leeches’; a physician :)

'Leche' - Occupation in 1437-9
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=800085.0

On the same list of Freemen of Norwich I find a William Aylmer:

William Aylmer        Carter        20 Edw. IV

That would be about 1481 and matches your William Aylmer perfectly :)

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Will of Thomas Aylmer 1500
« Reply #38 on: Wednesday 26 September 18 06:55 BST (UK) »
who whilst he lived and at the time of his death held goods in diverse dioceses of the Province of Canterbury

This is so interesting! So much money to be spent on (barfoot) pilgrimages, lol :) :) :) But that is very unusual, that the ones granting the probate actually sit up and make note of how wealthy the testator is!

It's not so much that they were admiring his wealth.  Technically an estate containing property in more than one diocese of the Province of Canterbury should have been proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury.  See here:

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Prerogative_Court_of_the_Archbishop_of_Canterbury

They are making some point relating to this, but not explaining it fully.  Maybe it was a borderline case where the values didn't quite reach 5 pounds in multiple dioceses?

Offline WillowG

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Re: Will of Thomas Aylmer 1500
« Reply #39 on: Wednesday 26 September 18 23:06 BST (UK) »
who whilst he lived and at the time of his death held goods in diverse dioceses of the Province of Canterbury

This is so interesting! So much money to be spent on (barfoot) pilgrimages, lol :) :) :) But that is very unusual, that the ones granting the probate actually sit up and make note of how wealthy the testator is!

It's not so much that they were admiring his wealth.  Technically an estate containing property in more than one diocese of the Province of Canterbury should have been proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury.  See here:

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Prerogative_Court_of_the_Archbishop_of_Canterbury

They are making some point relating to this, but not explaining it fully.  Maybe it was a borderline case where the values didn't quite reach 5 pounds in multiple dioceses?

Ah, thank you. I did not know this. I am learning so much about this period :)


Offline francoso

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Re: Will of Thomas Aylmer 1500
« Reply #40 on: Friday 28 September 18 02:14 BST (UK) »
Hi Willow. Have you checked/googled Historical Collections Life and Acts John Aylmer?
https://archive.org/details/historicalcolle00strygoog is one of several links.

The book, Chapter I and X give details of Bishop John Aylmer and his family descendants but not antecedents. He married Judith Bures/Buers and had seven sons: Samuel, Theophilus, John, Zachary, Nathaniel, Tobel, Edmund and, to quote, "two or three daughters". One daughter (no name) married a person named Squire, while a second, Mary, married a person named Lynche. The Chapter X also give some grandchildren, and mentions Bishop John's lands and to which children he left them. Pity it doesn't mention ancestors but ..
francoso

Offline francoso

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Re: Will of Thomas Aylmer 1500
« Reply #41 on: Friday 28 September 18 02:47 BST (UK) »
Also this, Willow:
JUDITH BURES KING (AYLMER) 1525-1618
[Ancestral Link: Lura Minnie Parker (Stagge), daughter of Minnie May Elmer (Parker), daughter of Mark Alfred Elmer, son of William Elmer, son of John Elmer, son of William Elmer, son of William Elmer, son of John Elmer, son of John Elmer, son of Edward Elmer, son of Edward Elmer, son of Samuel Elmer or Aylmer, son of Judith Bures King (Aylmer).]

Written on monument of Judith Aylmer, Much Hadham, Herts London, England
Here lieth the Body of Judith Aylmer, the Daughter of Robert King, Esq;
she was twice married; first to Nathaniel Treherne; Esq; in Queen Mary's
Reign; afterwards in Queen Elizabeth's Reign, to John Aylmer, Bishop of London,
by whom he had eight sons and two Daughters: She lived a Widow 24 Years,
and died in the 78th Year of her Age, the 17th Day of Dec. An. Dem. 1618.
From Historical Antiquities of Hertfordshire.

Also, on Geni is a version of his ancestors: no guarantees
https://www.geni.com/people/John-Aylmer-Bishop-of-London/600000002029846a Frances1700

Gives Bishop Aylmer's father as John Alylmer and mother as a Frances. And the father, John Aylmer, as having father Richard Aylmer and mother a Margaret. This goes back further but no idea how accurate it is.

This also gives the name of another of Bishop John's daughters as Elizabeth. Which means three daughters as Judith, Mary and Elizabeth (covering both queens, eh ?).

francoso

Offline WillowG

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Re: Will of Thomas Aylmer 1500
« Reply #42 on: Friday 28 September 18 17:10 BST (UK) »
Hi Willow. Have you checked/googled Historical Collections Life and Acts John Aylmer?
https://archive.org/details/historicalcolle00strygoog is one of several links.

The book, Chapter I and X give details of Bishop John Aylmer and his family descendants but not antecedents. He married Judith Bures/Buers and had seven sons: Samuel, Theophilus, John, Zachary, Nathaniel, Tobel, Edmund and, to quote, "two or three daughters". One daughter (no name) married a person named Squire, while a second, Mary, married a person named Lynche. The Chapter X also give some grandchildren, and mentions Bishop John's lands and to which children he left them. Pity it doesn't mention ancestors but ..
francoso

The Bishop's descendants are actually pretty well-documented :) Some of them ended up in the New World in about 1634, so not long after the period we are researching! It is the more curious that we know nothing (nothing verifiable anyway!) about his parentage ...

Several have tried their hand at solving this mystery and I have a small hope that we might manage it yet!

There is something deeply satisfying about managing something nobody else has :)

Offline WillowG

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Re: Will of Thomas Aylmer 1500
« Reply #43 on: Friday 28 September 18 17:20 BST (UK) »
Written on monument of Judith Aylmer, Much Hadham, Herts London, England
Here lieth the Body of Judith Aylmer, the Daughter of Robert King, Esq;
she was twice married; first to Nathaniel Treherne; Esq; in Queen Mary's
Reign; afterwards in Queen Elizabeth's Reign, to John Aylmer, Bishop of London,
by whom he had eight sons and two Daughters: She lived a Widow 24 Years,
and died in the 78th Year of her Age, the 17th Day of Dec. An. Dem. 1618.
From Historical Antiquities of Hertfordshire.

Oh, this is quite a find, thank you so much! :) :D :) This I had not seen before! So Judith Bures was born in 1540 and married her first husband between July 1553 and November 1558. And married Bishop John Aylmer after November 1558. This is amazing! Some verifiable facts and dates! Wonderful! :) :) :)


Gives Bishop Aylmer's father as John Alylmer and mother as a Frances. And the father, John Aylmer, as having father Richard Aylmer and mother a Margaret. This goes back further but no idea how accurate it is.

The Frances is probably a result of believing that the lady of the Privy Chamber who died in 1540 could be his mother. That is what I belived until we went over her will :) The Richard Aylmer and Margaret is very interesting. I will keep my eyes peeled for them!

This also gives the name of another of Bishop John's daughters as Elizabeth. Which means three daughters as Judith, Mary and Elizabeth (covering both queens, eh ?).

francoso

If you were going to survive in those times it was best to cover all bases, lololol :)