Author Topic: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"  (Read 979 times)

Online Milliepede

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 26 September 18 11:54 BST (UK) »
It's not Liverpool but can you rule out the Ellen Deighton birth suggested earlier? (reply #3)

If mum was unmarried it makes sense she was registered under mums name only. 

Only the birth will confirm if Emma was her mother so if you can rule her out by other means all well and good!
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

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Offline Timbottawa

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 26 September 18 12:37 BST (UK) »
Thanks Millipede,

In reply 3 you referred to an Emma birth, whereas we’re interested in an Ellen birth. I didn’t check - were you mixing up the ladies’ names?

If it was in fact Ellen, then I might take a punt on ordering it
Boyle, Butler, Yarborough, Baldwin, Midwood, McHale, Carter, Noble, Kay, Raper, Greenwood, Swift

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Offline avm228

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 26 September 18 12:47 BST (UK) »
The 1866 child is in fact Ellen, not Emma, but she’s not yours.  Born 13 Jan 1866 to Robert Deighton and Hannah, baptised Shoreditch 1868, by 1871 Hannah has remarried to a John Barlow Hudswell and Ellen Deighton, 5 b St Pancras, is in their household as John’s “daur-in-law” (stepdaughter).
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Timbottawa

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 26 September 18 15:00 BST (UK) »
Thanks avm

So the mystery remains. Ellen, apparently Butler, born about 1868-9 (1871 and 1881 censuses give consistent ages of 2 and 12) but supposedly in Liverpool ... but no Butler or Deighton birth in Liverpool at that time, not even in London ...

Hmm! What’s the solution?
Boyle, Butler, Yarborough, Baldwin, Midwood, McHale, Carter, Noble, Kay, Raper, Greenwood, Swift

Offline avm228

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 26 September 18 15:02 BST (UK) »
Probably that her birth was not registered, unfortunately.

Have you tried variants - Helen rather than Ellen, phonetic spellings of Deighton, etc?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline avm228

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 26 September 18 15:05 BST (UK) »
Do you know when Ellen died? If she lived to 1939 then you could get her exact birthdate from the 1939 Register, but on a quick look I couldn’t see her past 1891 census & possible twins born 1892.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Timbottawa

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 26 September 18 15:14 BST (UK) »
Thanks avm

I quickly tried variants without success but probably need to invest more time in that.

I suspect her father was not Henry Butler and she was registered under the surname of her real father (as understood by her mother!). But that then, when her mother took up with Henry Butler, her mother changed all their names and never revealed the truth to Ellen.

Makes ng it almost impossible to find her birth (unless, as you say, she survived to 1939)

Cheers
Tim
Boyle, Butler, Yarborough, Baldwin, Midwood, McHale, Carter, Noble, Kay, Raper, Greenwood, Swift

Offline Janhunt

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #34 on: Sunday 10 February 19 13:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi I am new to this site and have just seen your chats.  Emma Deighton also known as Butler was my husband’ s G.G Grandma.  I have the baptism of her daughter Ellen Deighton on 22 Aug 1873 in Southwark.  Emma states herself as being a single woman (census shows Ellen born 1869 in Liverpool).  Prior to this baptism I have the baptism of her son Henry William Deighton on 6 August 1873 in Southwark and Emma again states that she is a single woman But I have Henry’ birth cert stating he was born 29 December 1871 and registered on 1 March 1872.  He is names Henry William Butler born 17 Little Queen St. his father Henry zthomas Butler an Actor.   Emma’s is shown as Emma Butler formerly Deighton. So by Aug 1873 Emma is saying she is a single woman when she has her two children baptised.  Emma on these baptisms is living at 25 Royal Terrace and when her third child Charles Edward is born on 8 March 1880 she is living next door at no.24.  On the birth certificate of Charles she states the father as Henry zbutler a Law Writer and herself as Emma Butler formerly Deighton.  Interesting is the informant Annn ? Chapman.  On the baptism of Charles Edward Butler dated 5 Dec 1884 she is named as Emma Butler and the father as Henry Thomas Butler a Traveller.  They are living at 31 Farmen? Road.  So although I cannot find any marriage lines I think they must have been married by 1884 as Emma seems unable to lie where the church is involved.  Hope to hear what you think.

Offline Timbottawa

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #35 on: Monday 11 February 19 03:01 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jan ... and welcome to RootsChat ... it is a very powerful tool for your family history research, as you have already seen!

Your information is very interesting.  Today I am busy at work, but perhaps this evening I will try to compile all the information we have on Emma, to see where we stand.

But, your husband being (possibly) a g-g-grandson of Henry Thomas Butler, actor, and me also being a g-g-grandson, I believe that a simple DNA test would clearly establish whether the Henry Thomas Butlers are, in fact, one-and-the-same.  Would your husband be willing?

Cheers, Tim
Boyle, Butler, Yarborough, Baldwin, Midwood, McHale, Carter, Noble, Kay, Raper, Greenwood, Swift