Author Topic: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"  (Read 985 times)

Offline Janhunt

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #36 on: Monday 11 February 19 11:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi Tim, my husband is not overly interested in ancestry research - I am the researcher having researched both mine and hubby’s families.  My husband G Grandmother was Ellen the daughter of Emma Butler nee Deighton and I have no information to say that Henry Thomas Butler was her father but as I said the two boys have documents at least mentioning Henry Thomas Butler as the father.  Who is your G Grandparent?  Have you taken the DNA and if so did it reveal Emma and Henry Thomas as your G.G. grandparents?  Also what Company did you use for the test.

Look forward to hearing from you when you have some free time.  I will try and talk hubby into having the test.

Great to be in touch. Jan

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Offline Timbottawa

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #37 on: Tuesday 12 February 19 02:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jan,

I've not yet done any DNA testing, because I have not had any need to do so.  Now things may be different.  As you probably know, the process is very simple - you swab the inside of your cheek and send it off!

But is it worth it in this case?  Since your husband is a descendant of Ellen, we have to ask if Henry Thomas Butler was her father, or not.  We are missing her birth certificate, and without it we have no information on her father, other than her marriage certificate, which is of questionable accuracy.  If she was really born in Liverpool, I don't think HT could have been her father, as I have no information showing an association with Liverpool before 1875.  But I note that in the 1891 census, Ellen (now Hunt) records her birthplace as Kennington.

I DO think that HT was the father of Henry William - everything seems to match up, and lacking any other Henry Thomas Butler actors at the time in London, the evidence seems compelling.

I suspect HT was not the father of Charles Edward, simply because in late 1871 HT and his family left London and were never based there again.  Having said that, I don't know where HT was in June 1879, when Charles would have been conceived.  He had been performing in South Shields the previous month, and from mid-1880 was based in Hull, but in between I have found no trace of him.

So, my question to you ... have you traced any living descendants of Henry William?  They would be the best bet for proving that HT was the father.  But basically, if descendants of all the three children were to take DNA tests, together with myself, it would show (or disprove) common parentage.

Regarding Henry Thomas Butler, my frustrations with tracking him down can be found at this thread: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=318087.36

I will also send you a personal message with a biography of him.

Cheers
Tim
Boyle, Butler, Yarborough, Baldwin, Midwood, McHale, Carter, Noble, Kay, Raper, Greenwood, Swift

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Offline Janhunt

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #38 on: Wednesday 13 February 19 16:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi Tim, I have not found any living relatives so far from Emma’s two boys - searching just throws up too many possibles and I cannot seem to narrow it down.  By the way I forgot to mention that in the 1911 Census Emma states that she has had five children but only three survived.  I take it that your connection is nothing to do with Emma so is it Margaret?  I am still trying to locate a birth certificate for Ellen which may or may not be impossible! I have not even found her Death Cert.   My husband thinks the DNA test is too expensive.

Hope we eventually solve this riddle of missing marriage certs.

Speak soon
Jan


Offline Timbottawa

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #39 on: Thursday 14 February 19 04:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jan,

Yes, the frustrations of researching such a common name as Butler!  Especially in London.  You can easily end up investing large amounts of money ordering certificates that turn out to be incorrect.  But let us see if, working together, we can find some trace of Henry William and Charles Edward's descendants.

Speaking of large amounts of money, DNA tests cost in the region of GBP 30-40.  I would be happy to cover the costs if there was a clear benefit from the tests, but lacking Ellen's birth certificate, it is not yet clear that there would be any benefit.

Yes, my ancestry is through Henry Thomas and Margaret (McHale).  Their 3rd child and oldest daughter was Edith Marguerite, who was my father's mother.  My full name includes "Butler", as does my brother's.

All the best, Tim

Boyle, Butler, Yarborough, Baldwin, Midwood, McHale, Carter, Noble, Kay, Raper, Greenwood, Swift

Offline Timbottawa

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #40 on: Saturday 16 February 19 02:48 GMT (UK) »
Jan ... as you are new to RootsChat, I'm not sure if you have noticed the personal messaging facility.  I sent you a personal message asking for your email address so I can send you a biography of Henry Thomas Butler.
Boyle, Butler, Yarborough, Baldwin, Midwood, McHale, Carter, Noble, Kay, Raper, Greenwood, Swift

Offline Janhunt

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Re: Emma Deighton, born about 1843, later "Butler"
« Reply #41 on: Saturday 16 February 19 12:53 GMT (UK) »
Just sent it to you. Thanks Tim