Author Topic: Lie about first name on a Sheriff Decree  (Read 1206 times)

Offline whiteout7

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Lie about first name on a Sheriff Decree
« on: Tuesday 25 September 18 20:28 BST (UK) »
Could a man lie about his first name on a Sheriff Decree and get away with it?

I'm considereing investigating this index entry at Sottish Indexes:
"Mary Nicol, daughter of and residing with David Nicol (Fish Merchant), The Towers, Dysart   James Clark Junior, In His Majesty's Army, 8 Watt Street, Dysart   1917   1921   Kirkcaldy"

It sounds very close in time, gender and in location to where a rumoured child of my ancestor David Clark Junior of His Majesty's Army was born.

Watt Street intersects with the Clark family home on Station Street
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Lie about first name on a Sheriff Decree
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 25 September 18 21:17 BST (UK) »
Whiteout,

I don't think I'm understanding what you posted  ::)

Is Mary Nicol living with her father David Nicol?

You then give James Clark (Jnr) with no reference to who James Clark (Snr) is which has me confused?
Then David Clark (Jnr), is this Mary Nicols' son?

Can you explain a bit clearer please as to what is meant?

Can you explain what 1917 & 1921 refer to please?

Annie



South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline djct59

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Re: Lie about first name on a Sheriff Decree
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 25 September 18 22:59 BST (UK) »
I suspect this is to do with an old Scots irregular marriage being regularised by Sheriff summary warrant under the Marriage (Scotland) Act 1916, rather than by a decree in contested litigation. The documentation has to be sworn to be the truth, and section 2 makes it a criminal offence to provide false particulars, but during wartime I suspect it might be both difficult and pointless to try to verify all the relevant information.

There is rather an absence of detail in the question, though, as has been noted.


Offline Rosinish

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Re: Lie about first name on a Sheriff Decree
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 25 September 18 23:51 BST (UK) »
In 1918/19/20 'The Towers' is listed on the VRs as being in E (East)? Quality Street

NICOL DAVID
Proprietor Occupier
HOUSE GDN AND OFFICES THE TOWERS E QUALITY ST
KIRKCALDY AND DYSART
1919
VR002700014-

In 1920 - 25 there's both an Alexander Clark & John Clark as Tenant/Occupiers on Station Road

In 1916 - 25 James Clark is Tenant/Occupier at 13 Watt Street
I'm assuming the father of the child is possibly this James' son?

The VRs don't list wives/children/lodgers

When was the child James Clark born & who was his mother or was he born as James Nicol to Mary Nicol but brought up as James Clark  ???

Annie



South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline whiteout7

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Re: Lie about first name on a Sheriff Decree
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 26 September 18 05:08 BST (UK) »
"Mary Nicol, daughter of and residing with David Nicol (Fish Merchant), The Towers, Dysart   James Clark Junior, In His Majesty's Army, 8 Watt Street, Dysart   1917   1921   Kirkcaldy"

Mary Nicol is the daughter of David Nicol.

Mary Nicol had a child - Elizabeth in 1917 (source Scotlandspeople)

Mary Nicol went to the Kirkcaldy Sherrif Court in 1921.

Mary Nicol wanted James Clark Jnr to pay costs for their daughter Elizabeth.


What I am saying is I'm not sure I believe that the name James Clark Jnr is accurate as he father! I believe his name could be David Clark Jnr.

Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Lie about first name on a Sheriff Decree
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 26 September 18 08:05 BST (UK) »
What makes you believe the name could be David Clark rather than James Clark?

It's difficult to try & get a picture without info. (your reasoning) for anyone to comment either way?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline djct59

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Re: Lie about first name on a Sheriff Decree
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 26 September 18 23:12 BST (UK) »
I'm sorry, but this makes no sense at all.

Mary was the Pursuer, raising an action of affiliation and aliment - is that right?

The action required to be served on the Defender, possibly by Sheriff Officer. If the wrong person is named in the Writ that would appear to be a complete defence - "I James am not liable to pay for the child - David is". Why would James allow decree to pass against him if he's not the father?

Alternatively, why would the Pursuer's lawyer deliberately choose to raise action against the wrong putative father?

Offline whiteout7

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Re: Lie about first name on a Sheriff Decree
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 27 September 18 10:12 BST (UK) »


The action required to be served on the Defender, possibly by Sheriff Officer. If the wrong person is named in the Writ that would appear to be a complete defence - "I James am not liable to pay for the child - David is". Why would James allow decree to pass against him if he's not the father?

Alternatively, why would the Pursuer's lawyer deliberately choose to raise action against the wrong putative father?

If the putative father lied about his name of course he would allow the decree to pass against him with the fake name, that is what people commiting fraud do!



Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline whiteout7

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Re: Lie about first name on a Sheriff Decree
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 27 September 18 10:30 BST (UK) »
I am 100% looking at Sheriff Court Paternity Case Search at Scottish Indexes too, not anything else
https://www.scottishindexes.com/courtsearch.aspx

There are two births in Scotlands people that this could relate to

James Clark born 1917 in Dysart
or
Elizabeth R McF born 1917 in Dysart

Why do I thing the fathers name is wrong? I have family information that relates to a birth of a female child around this time and it being a subsquent reason for my ancestors immigration to another country.




 
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)