Mind bender-Smith and Smith

[ciderdrinker]

Hello Everyone
This is a real toughy
I had a lady in to my Family History Group on Friday and went through her family tree from a 1911 census entry she bought with her(so  not my fault!)   back to 1814 .All in the Wednesbury area. Smith and Jones!
Was it right ? Was it heck.
Had a check of that 1911 census this morning and it doesn't fit with her mother and grandparents entry of 1939.  OOPs
So I started again, on the Smiths of Wednesbury.

This is as far as I got
A marriage at St Stephen Willenhall on free reg 19.9.1880
Thomas Smith lab  s of John Smith puddler dec
Elizabeth Ann smith 20 d of John labourer

Thomas is born Netheton in 1881 and Staffordshire nk in 1891 when the family are in Swinton Lancs.He dies by 1901 when Elizabeth had remarried to a Job Walters.(Marriage not available on line).
Elizabeth Ann is born 1857-1860 either Bilston ,Willenhall or Staffs nk
She is buried at James bridge in 1917 age 56.

Children for the couple - Sarah L or E 5 in 1891 ,Thomas age 3 ,John 2 Oct 1890 and Mary Ann Salford 13 Aug 1892.

Can anyone crack them before the marriage.
Any help REALLY appreciated.

ps got the wrong 1881 they are at Wolverhampton Lane Darlaston next to what seems to be her parents from Lincolnshire and Thomas is from Salop Stirchley?not Netherton.

Ciderdrinker

[philipsearching]

Do the censuses or marriage record give an age for Thomas?
(ignore this question - I looked it up and saw the age given for Thomas was 20)

[philipsearching]

I THINK I GOT HIM! 

Thomas was born in Stirchley as per your 1881 find:
Birth registered Dec qtr 1859 Madeley vol 6a p561 SMITH Thomas mmn BAILEY (GRO)
Marriage Jun qtr 1853 Madeley vol 6a p1124 on same page SMITH John, BAILEY Sarah (FreeBMD)
Marriage 10 Apr 1853 Malinslee Shropshire SMITH John to BAILEY Sarah (FamilySearch)

1861 Census transcript (FamilySearch)
Forge Row, Dawley, Shropshire RG09/1856/19 p31
John Smith, Head, Male, 51, pudler, born Dawley Parish, Shropshire
Sarah Smith, Wife, Female, 27, born Dawley Parish, Shropshire
Martha Smith, Daughter, Female, 6, born Dawley Parish, Shropshire
Hannah Smith, Daughter, Female, 3, born Dawley Parish, Shropshire
Thomas Smith, Son, Male, 1, born Dawley Parish, Shropshire


Philip

[ciderdrinker]

Good Morning
That's blooming great Philip!
Fingers crossed she will come back this week.
Thank you for all your kind efforts.
Ciderdrinker

[philipsearching]

Pushing my luck, I thought I'd look for Elizabeth Ann SMITH.

Taking the view that either Bilston or Willenhall was a good starting point (they both registered in Wolverhampton) I found (between 1850 and 1865 - just to be cautious!):
Mar qtr 1855 Wolverhampton vol 6b p447 SMITH Elizabeth Ann mmn JONES (GRO)
Sep qtr 1860 Wolverhampton vol 6b p454 SMITH Elizabeth Ann mmn MEASURES (GRO)

Possible marriages (FreeBMD):
SMITH and JONES - too many to wade through!
Sep qtr 1859 Spalding, Lincs vol 7a p464 on same page SMITH John, MEASURES Mary Ann

Going by the probability that the 1855 birth is too early (yay! - no JONES to search!) I looked at SMITH/MEASURES and found:
Births  - anywhere in England/Wales SMITH mmn MEASURES (GRO)
Sep qtr 1860 Wolverhampton vol 6b p454 SMITH Elizabeth Ann mmn MEASURES
Dec qtr 1860 Wolverhampton vol 6b p440 SMITH Margaret Elizabeth mmn MEASURES
Mar qtr 1865 Wolverhampton vol 6b p535 SMITH John George mmn MEASURES
Mar qtr 1865 Wolverhampton vol 6b p520 SMITH Seth mmn MEASURES
(there is a Jane Isabella SMITH mmn MEASURES born 1860 Islington who is not related)

This led to the 1871 census (FamilySearch transcript and image on Anc*****)
folio 20 piece 2954 page 36 Baggots Bridge, Darlaston, Staffs
SMITH John 37, head, labourer in colliery, born Lincs - Deeping St James
SMITH Mary Ann 33 , wife, born Lincs - Deeping St James
SMITH Elizabeth 12, born Staffs - Willenhall
other children: John 8, Seth 7, Samuel 4 (all born Staffs - Portobello), Enoch 1 (born Staffs - Darlaston)

The family (without Elizabeth Ann and with Sarah A born c1872) is in Darlaston on the 1881 census RG11 2817/70 p26 - John is a boat loader - general labourer. (FamilySearch)

Obviously I can't rule out the possibility that Elizabeth Ann SMITH's birth was registered without a middle name, but this SMITH/MEASURES family does look very promising.

Philip

ADDED - ooooh, I've just been promoted to Marquessate - what a cracking search to gain entrance to the nobility -  cue my happy dance!

[ciderdrinker]

Congratulations Phillip
Time for a Celebration!

Thanks for all the info .Fingers crossed she'll be back this week and I'll pass it on
Ciderdrinker

[ciderdrinker]

Hello
Just to let you know.John Smith and Mary Ann Measures married at the Old baptist Chapel in Bourn in 1859.
It was a double wedding with brother Holmes Smith and sister Sarah Measure/s.
The couples moved to Willenhall and Bloxwich.
So their parents are John and Catherine Smith nee Holmes and George Measure and Margaret Wright.
Even found a Will for a James Measure 1844 one of the grandfathers.
And did she turn up.
No luck.
Anyway just thought I'd let you know.
Thanks from me anyway

Ciderdrinker

[philipsearching]

And did she turn up.
No luck.

All together now: "Don't you just hate it when that happens!" 

Philip