Payne Thomas & Hannah,plus children, Lost after 1881 census

[Lance Matthews]

Can some kind person help me with the below, please.
Thomas Payne born 1855 in Birmingham and his wife Hannah ?? born 1857 in Sheffield.
In 1881 census they and their children are living in Leeds
William Payne b 1876 Sheffield
Thomas Payne b 1877 Sheffield
Joseph Payne b 1879 Bradford
Thomas A Payne b 1881 Leeds

[PaulineJ]

Start by verifying the transcription TWO kids named Thomas looks wrong to me.

[Pheno]

The 1881 census does indeed say Thomas Payne and Thomas A Payne as sons of Thomas Payne.  However I think the younger son should be James A(rthur) Payne as in 1891 Joseph Payne and James Arthur Payne are together as 11 and 8 year old paupers in Leeds Moral and Industrial Training School for Pauper Children in Beckett Street, Leeds.

(RG12/3696/140/2)

Pheno

GRO index checked and there was a birth of a James Arthur Payne registered Q1 1881 Leeds mmn Thompson.  Ties in with the reg of a Thomas Payne registered Q2 1877 Sheffield mmn Thompson

[Mabel Bagshawe]

William is in Sheffield with his maternal grandparents

Joseph Thompson    58
Ann Thompson    64
William Payne    15 - spring knife cutler apprentice

RG12, 3819, 96, 17

ADDED - and 1901

William Payne    25 - spring knife cutler
Annie Payne    22 - wife
Doris M Payne    1
Ellen Coward    52 - boarder

RG13, 4366, 135, 39

[Pheno]

Free BMD Marriage:

Thomas Payne & Annie Thompson Jun 1875  Sheffield  Vol 9c Pg 480


Looks like tragedy befell the family:

GRO Death Index

Dec 1883 Leeds  Hannah Payne age 27

Pheno

[Pheno]

Oh I missed him.  14 year old Thomas Payne is also a pauper in the Moral & Industrial Training School in 1891 with his 2 brothers.

That's the children accounted for but not sure of the father yet.

Pheno

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Sadly Thomas jnr appears to be in and out of prison c1900 - a number of times as a "disorderly pauper" (refusing to work in some instances).  He's an ag lab, previously been in Leeds  industrial school

ADDED - by 1911 he's made it to the Wrexham workhouse in North Wales

[Lance Matthews]

Many thanks to you all. Very sad. In 1881 Thomas senior was a Printer/Compositor and 2 years later his whole life falls apart. The father of Thomas Snr. was Peter, born Yorkshire in 1833 who married Letitia ?? from Lincolnshire.