Author Topic: Paupers grave, Greenwich Cemetery >>>  (Read 1021 times)

Offline halfasheep

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Paupers grave, Greenwich Cemetery >>>
« on: Thursday 04 October 18 12:23 BST (UK) »
Hi guys, new area for me (geographically speaking), so apologies if this is in the wrong area.

I have a relative buried in Greenwich Cemetery (grave reference J/40 - William John Hughes).

He is buried in the same grave as 9 other people, buried between 24/08/1944 and 30/09/1944.

The family rumour was this man died in London and was buried in a paupers grave. Now he's finally been tracked down, this seems to confirm it.

I'll be honest with you, as this is wartime, and you guys in London had it very different to us in rural South Wales, was this a common practice to have large graves, or could it genuinely be a paupers grave?

Any help would be gratefully appreciated
census info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Buckley - Maesteg, Tipperary
Lane - Waterford
Hughes - Hay/Hereford
Hobby - Byford
Evans - Neath/Cadoxton
Whitty - Wexford, South Wales
Connell - Ireland, and possibly Liverpool
White - Kinsale, Cork
Ahearn(?) - Glanmire, Cork
Millward - Merthyr, Maesteg

Offline dawnsh

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Re: Paupers grave, Greenwich Cemetery >>>
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 04 October 18 14:00 BST (UK) »
Hi halfasheep

Since the establishment of municpal and private cemeteries, there have generally been 2 types of graves:

Those purchased in perpetuity or leased for 50, 75 or 100 years which are 'owned' by a family member and at the time of purchase were dug 'so deep' to accomodate the family members who were going to be buried there. These plots were and still are available but they are costly. In addition, a private grave enabled the surviving family to erect a memorial of sort.

For those who couldn't afford an outright purchase, 'common' graves were available and these had as many as 12 people in them, all unrelated and buried in fairly quick succession to each other. These graves do not have headstones.

As a matter of some principal, our ancestors would be horrified to think they were being buried in a paupers grave, a hangover from the earlier workhouse days. Although the plot was not purchased, they still had to pay a lesser fee to the cemetery for the burial and would have been at great pains to make sure that a suitable coffin, flowers etc would have been provided for the funeral.

During the war, things really weren't any different, although some deaths and burials were the result of enemy action and some cemeteries in London in the area of the Blitz did make provision for war graves to take a large number of casualties.

www.warmemorialsonline.org.uk/memorial/233535

Dawn
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea

Offline halfasheep

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Re: Paupers grave, Greenwich Cemetery >>>
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 04 October 18 16:00 BST (UK) »
Thank you for that. I haven't come across a common grave before, but I assumed there would be no memorial on it. I'll have to check and see if he was a victim of the war - no death cert yet.

Funnily enough, my family here in Wales have a large plot that was used from the 1860's to 1920's. There was one woman buried there that I couldn't find any connection to. It turns out that she was a neighbour who had been forced into the workhouse and subsequently died with no-one to bury her. Rather than her end up in a "paupers grave", my gt gt gt grandfather had her buried with our family
census info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Buckley - Maesteg, Tipperary
Lane - Waterford
Hughes - Hay/Hereford
Hobby - Byford
Evans - Neath/Cadoxton
Whitty - Wexford, South Wales
Connell - Ireland, and possibly Liverpool
White - Kinsale, Cork
Ahearn(?) - Glanmire, Cork
Millward - Merthyr, Maesteg

Offline dawnsh

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Re: Paupers grave, Greenwich Cemetery >>>
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 04 October 18 17:12 BST (UK) »
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea


Offline Chris Doran

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Re: Paupers grave, Greenwich Cemetery >>>
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 04 October 18 18:10 BST (UK) »
Greenwich Cemetery has vast areas of common graves (which may or may not be paupers graves). Many are unmarked, in areas with just grass. Some have small headstones, less than knee high, which characterise common graves everywhere. There's usually only one name per stone and although you sometimes see a whole row on a single grave, don't expect everyone to have one, so if you go to look, take a list of all 10 people. Contrary to what you might expect, common grave headstones seem more likely to carry plot numbers than those on private graves, which helps searching.

Section J is in the far left corner of the cemetery seen from the entrance. Follow the wide central road past the large war memorial area and it's the final section on the left, sloping down to the wall. Now comes the rub. Greenwich follows legislation promoting keeping areas of grass uncut to encourage wildlife. Many of the common grave areas are treated this way and I don't think I've ever seen J without knee-high grass, though an encouraging number of headstones can be made out peeping above it. The wildlife has a habit of digging deep holes, so it's unsafe to wade in. Notices say tne grass is cut in autumn, but I've rarely managed to hit the right time. As it happens, I too have relatives in section J and intend to have another go this winter. I'll see if I can find J/40, but no promises if or when I'll succeed. Please send me the list of 10 names by PM or e-mail. The cemetery closes quite early, 4pm Oct-Mar, which doesn't help.

As to wartime grave marking, my observation generally in London is that there is a higher tendancy for them to be unmarked or for engraved inscriptions to have been done so lightly as to be no longer readable. I guess relatives moved away and never got around to it and/or labour and materials were scarce. On the other hand, air raid victims buried in mass graves now usually have publicly-maintained war memorials with the names usually (but not always) better preserved and legible than on many private graves.
Researching Penge, Anerley, (incuding the Crystal Palace) and neighbouring parts of Beckenham, currently in London (Bromley), formerly Surrey and/or Kent.

Offline halfasheep

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Re: Paupers grave, Greenwich Cemetery >>>
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 04 October 18 18:20 BST (UK) »
Thank you for that both of you. Death cert to be ordered then.

I will try to pm the list as soon as I get chance.

I'm just glad to finally tie up this loose end
census info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Buckley - Maesteg, Tipperary
Lane - Waterford
Hughes - Hay/Hereford
Hobby - Byford
Evans - Neath/Cadoxton
Whitty - Wexford, South Wales
Connell - Ireland, and possibly Liverpool
White - Kinsale, Cork
Ahearn(?) - Glanmire, Cork
Millward - Merthyr, Maesteg